I was 27, raised a JW, elder, with the wool firmly over my eyes. The generation "light" was hard to stomach and probably put me in the proper mindset to make an eventual change. Then, while doing research for the bookstudy in the laughable Daniel book, I happened upon the 607/587 problem. Spent two months doing my own research and found everything unraveled. Most troubling were the volume of quotes deceptively taken out of context. DA'd at 28.
paulvarjak
JoinedPosts by paulvarjak
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49
30 and Out?
by Black Man in30 that seems to put jw's at a cross-roads?
i've known so many who have decided to abandon ship at either the age of 30 or either after 30 years of being baptized.
i fall into the former category.
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Wrong date
by tattoogrl333 inhello i'm new to the whole jw study thing, but they said it fell in 607 but due to the advice of others here i looked it up.
i found in 3 encyclopedia's online that it fell in 586. i printed them out and am going to get more.
i'm going to show the lady i study with, i'm just curious what you think will happen, and if she will try to deny it.
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paulvarjak
To discard 1914 would be to discredit thier entire foundation. They would then have to discard 1919 when they were 'chosen' as 'God's Organization' which is the cornerstone of the Organization. The bigger issue is that 1914 is the only speculative date they have pointed to where something perceivable actually happened, World War I. It has always been their trump card. They claim divine backing and have trumpeted their special understanding. For example:
"In the 'Watchtower' magazine of March, 1880, they said: 'The Times of the Gentiles extend to 1914, and the heavenly kingdom will not have full sway till then.' Of all people, only the witnesses pointed to 1914 as the year for God’s kingdom to be fully set up in heaven." (From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, pg. 170).
Of course, at the time they believed the Gentile times had started in 1874 and would end in 1914 but that's a whole other thread.
Many Witnesses will tell you that 'dates don't matter'. Don't believe it. Without the 1914 belief, they are just another wierd fundamentalist group.
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paulvarjak
Dallas, Texas.
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Part II of Survey! Please Respond Again.Thank's.
by Big Jim inthe first survey i asked how you were brought into the non-truth.
my next survey is along the same line, however what i would like to find out is on the average how many hours you spent in the field service and were you ever able to bring anyone into the non-truth via field service or via incidental witnessing.. and how long you were associated with the borg?.
thank you in advance for your input.
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paulvarjak
Published from age 6 to 16 at 10 hrs/month = 1,200 hrs
age 16-21 regular pioneer at 1,000 hrs/year = 5,000 hrs
age 21 - exodus at 10 hrs/month = 720 hrs6,920 hours in 21 years
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Secret Posters Hedging Their Bets?
by Englishman insince i found sites like this on the internet i have been constantly amazed at the great number of people who post here and yet do this in secret.. so many people seem to be trapped in a situation where they desperately want to leave the jw religion behind.
so many people seem to be unable to do so for fear of losing their families, fearing that a da'ing or df'ing decree will separate them from the people that they love.
some posters are even elders and ministerial servants.. so, can you guys tell me how you manage to lead a life that is so complex?
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paulvarjak
I think one of the most damaging things is to leave before you're completely ready and wind up groveling to the elders to let you back in because you miss the relationships with friends and family. I did as Joel mentioned and cultivated close friends outside the org. before I left. They, and this board, were the things that got me through. It helped when I realized that the JW friends and family could never really know me even if I remained in the org. It's friendship and familial relations on thier own terms, and what kind or relationship is that anyway.
Still, it was a scary thing to jump into the deep end of the pool. Who knew I could swim so well?
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POLL - Elders vs Molesters
by Amazing ini wish to conduct a legitimate poll, or at least as legitimate as it can get on this forum.
unless you are or were a jw, please do not respond or make comments.
please simply give an answer, without extended comments.
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paulvarjak
3 that I served on commitees for. 11 victims in all.
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Please Respond To Survey! 25 more needed please.
by Big Jim init seems like to me the majority of people who are in the truth, are were in the truth was a result of either a family member are a friend witnessing to them and not many seem to have been found in the door to door work.. from my years of associating with the borg i cannot recall many coming in the truth from the door to door work.. how were you sucked in?
for me it was my aunt who has now even though i am not disfellowshipped decided to write me out of her will to the tune of about $150,000.00 (maybe i should hang around a couple more years)dont think i will.. please respond .
thanks.
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paulvarjak
Nice comments Princess-
I just celebrated my first (28th) birthday this month. I was fourth generation balls-to-the-wall witness.
paul
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Bethel Getting Paranoid, Tightening Screws
by AlanF ini have it from solid sources that brooklyn and patterson are now recording all incoming telephone calls.. a word to the wise if you have friends there you talk to.. alanf
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paulvarjak
I work for a Texas firm that regularly and legally records conversations without the knowledge of the person called. The states that prohibit such recording are:
Washington
Montana
Maryland
Mass
Pennsylvania
California
Nevada
New Hampshirepaul
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Advice requested on response to mom's letter
by paulvarjak ini received this recently from my mother.
the only contact i've had with any of my family since october has been an occasional email.
you are 28 years old and you made the choice to put yourself, and us, in this position.
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paulvarjak
I received this recently from my mother. The only contact I've had with any of my family since October has been an occasional email. I know many of you have had to deal with similar issues, so any advice on a well thought out response (if I even bother) would be appreciated.
NOTE: The DFing offense mentioned in the email is presumed.
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We still love you with all our hearts. I am going to be frank with you since you say you are well now and happy with your life. You may as well know how this has affected us.You are the one who has changed, not us. We are still the same people who raised you and have always loved you, only now we suffer from broken hearts. I never knew what pain was until you did this. No amount of watching others hurt from children who leave the truth can prepare one for experiencing the agony and hopelessness it is in reality. I know you have seen the faces of parents when you told them their children would be disfellowshipped. Seeing those faces is absolutely nothing compared to what went on in their hearts. No love is like the love a parent feels for a child. It is a love and bond
that lasts a lifetime. Other relationships may come and go - even sibling relationships - but a child is always the love you have forever. We have always loved you. We love you now, though we don't approve of what you have done. We will always love you.You have turned you back on everything we hold dear and your last e-mail was fairly blatant in that you don't "share our views" anymore. You are 28 years old and you made the choice to put yourself, and us, in this position. It was certainly not our choice. You hold the power in this and I assume that is the way you want it. When you wrote your letter of disassociation, you knew what it would do to our family. You are not ignorant or an inexperienced teenager. You did a lot of things that have hurt us in the past few months. I never had to be concerned as to whether you were telling the truth or a lie before last October. You have slapped us in the face with your attitude. The name we have worked so hard to build for the past 40 years isn't the same now. You say you love us, but we haven't seen it in action. We haven't changed. You have.
I know you did something that should have been handled judicially. I wish you had taken that course and not the course you did. Pride often gets in the way of our doing the things that are right but uncomfortable or embarrassing to us.
All of the doubts and research to prove this is a wrong way of life had to start somewhere. *****(ex-wife) said you spent long hours reading on the computer in the middle of the night. For everyone who has left because of doubts in recent times, that has been a classic constant. You are very intelligent and you think you have, with a small group of other doubters, found holes in the truth. I want you to remember one thing. You may be smart, but you got your intelligence through inheritance from our genes. Don't sell us short. Your dad and I have spent our lives studying the Bible. Others as intelligent as you and more so have done the same without the results you think you have found. I haven't seen a person yet that started this thinking on their own. Our enemy makes sure when the mind is fertile, curiosity is high, or rationalization of a bad concience exists that he seizes the opportunity.
We all miss you and miss being a family. Nothing has ever made me happier than being surrounded by my family. I feel empty now. The thought that it could last the rest of my life is almost unbearable. Your grandparents are devastated. My parents have gone through losing a daughter to the world and now a grandson that they took such pride in. I now understand them better than ever. Their grief for ******* is still raw after 25 years. Our grief will be raw as long as this situation exists. I regret that ****** has been hurt by this and has lost out on being a part of his only brothers life. When *****(disfellowshipped sister mentioned above) left, I still had one sister left. ******(aunt) and *****(uncle) miss you terribly. You and ****** are like sons to them - the closest things they have to children.
No matter how this runs in the long term, we will always love you. But, our love and dedication to Jehovah have to come above all else. Without our creator, nothing else would matter. Without our faith, we could not have endured what you have put us through. I hope the day comes when you return to the beliefs you were brought up with. But only you can make that choice, just as you were the only one who made the choice to leave. You left us. We did not leave you. We are still here when you want to return. Our arms will be open wide. It is your choice.
I really do love you and hopefully someday you will realize how much.
Love...Mom
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How would you respond to this type of emotional manipulation?
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Mind Control Cults
by paulvarjak injust re-reading steve hassan's book "combatting cult mind control" and the following struck me.
relating how he recruited persons in conjunction with their personality types while a part of the moonies, he states the following:.
"we saw believers as people searching for god, or looking for spiritual meaning in their lives...it was always amazing to me to realize how many people in this category told us they had just been praying to god to show them what he wanted them to do with thier lives.
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paulvarjak
Just re-reading Steve Hassan's book "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and the following struck me. Relating how he recruited persons in conjunction with their personality types while a part of the Moonies, he states the following:
"We saw believers as people searching for God, or looking for spiritual meaning in their lives...It was always amazing to me to realize how many people in this category told us they had just been praying to God to show them what He wanted them to do with thier lives. Many believed they were 'spiritually' let do meet one of our members. With them it was simply a matter of sharing our 'testimonies' with them to convince them they had been led to us by God."
Sound familiar?