Posts by pale.emperor

19

A Question

by FedUpJW in

i would appreciate knowing from someone in the know if the goofy carts and rain covers are given to the congregation by the org.

or if the congregation has to pay the org for them.

i am sure i read that somewhere here in my lurking days, but am not finding it at present.. if the congregation is billed for it i intend to use that as a reason for my continued refusal to donate anything from now on.. thanks in advance..

pale.emperor

I think a better reason to not donate is that the GB members fly first class on planes (with their wives) at $4,500 a ticket!!

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/no-expense-spared-governing-body-members-do-fly-business-class

19

Help Me Regain Contact With My Still In Family

by pale.emperor in

situation is, i'll never return to the wt.

my family with never leave the wt.. depending on who you ask you'll get the following answers when you ask about me:.

my family: he's confused.

pale.emperor

Your poor daughter is going to get enough JW nonsense from her mom. Please don't play into the WT dictates and go along with your mom's idea. If she won't see you, she shouldn't see your daughter. Period. Her loss, her choice and don't EVER let her suggest differently (and she will say so, explicitly.)
I've got a granddaughter who is 3. I would never cut off my kids and expect that I could see my granddaughter. If you live in Texas or Louisianna, come visit me (and stay along with your daughter for dinner!)
M.

Thanks JWDaughter. Unfortunately i live in the UK:( But the offer was lovely.

Yes i've decided to not let my mum see my daughter. I do, in part, feel a little cruel because she asks when she can go visit her nana again, but im not the one choosing to shun here.

I intend to go to the meetings, get reinstated then just not turn up ever again. I make no pretense to my family, i dont believe it's Gods organization. I'll be rejoining a cult to have contact with cult member family.

36

Brother & Sister-in-Law Return to Kingdom Hall After Two Decades, Quickly Get Stumbled

by TMS in

it was a mild surprise, learning that a brother and sister-in-law had began re-associating with jehovah's witnesses after at least 25 years of being away.

the couple, of hispanic ethnicity, are in their early 60's, with their five children all grown and independent.

the family had been considered nominal jws, infrequently attending meetings, rarely in field service, but using the annual convention as their family vacation.

pale.emperor

Lets see who they call when their toilet breaks. Where, oh, where could they find a plumber who will work for free???

18

The UN Files - Print Out And Keep For Your Next JW Visitor

by pale.emperor in

i've been researching the wt and the un involvement.

when i was still in and i first seen the un letter online, my cognitive dissonance kicked and i told myself it'll be a fake.

an apostate lie.. and seeing as no jw i've spoken to has ever heard of it, and flatly deny any involvement "no, they wouldn't do that", i decided to do a little "personal study" of my own.

pale.emperor

I've been researching the WT and the UN involvement. When i was still in and i first seen the UN letter online, my cognitive dissonance kicked and I told myself it'll be a fake. An apostate lie.

And seeing as no JW I've spoken to has ever heard of it, and flatly deny any involvement "no, they wouldn't do that", I decided to do a little "personal study" of my own. I intend to keep the documents on file so i can show them to my next witness caller on Saturday morning. Please note that i have no interest in spreading "false stories", "slander" or "lies". I am only interested in THE FACTS and EVIDENCE. And i have provided that evidence here.

Ok first off - in 1957 the Watchtower magazine discussed THEOCRATIC WARFARE. In a nutshell, you can lie in order to keep the preaching work going. No, not lie... just withhold information. This is something that if you were to do TO the WT society they would call you a liar. But i guess it's ok when they do it.

TAKE SPECIAL NOTE OF THE FIRST PARAGRAPH ON PAGE 286.

So lets flip this around for a second... suppose your child needs a blood transfusion. You allow him/her to have one. Later, the a JW representative (HLC member) turns up and asks if your child has had one - if we seek to protect our child and ourselves from disfellowshipping and use "theocratic warfare" we would be labelled as liars. But if the WT society does it to escape a prison sentence or interrogation its ok.

In 1991 the Watchtower society contacted the UN's NGO section and applied for membership of it's Department for Public Information. TAKE SPECIAL NOTE AT WHAT ANYONE SIGNING UP HAS TO DO IN ORDER TO BE GRANTED MEMBERSHIP:

Does that sound rather strange? The UN, the wild beast of Revelation that the kings of the nations turn to for peace and security?

For those that found out about the UN involvement, they were, naturally, stumbled. And so they asked their elders. Who were not aware of any UN involvement. Eventually, so many inquiries were being made to elders in congregations around the world that Bethel had to write to the Guardian newspaper that originally ran the exposé story.

Bethel claim it was only to use the UN library. And secondly, that they didn't know that the UN changed their criteria for membership. The first excuse may be true. But even if it was "only to use the library", this directly contradicts their own standing on this issue. See Watchtower 1979 in which it discussed why a Jehovahs Witness could not join the YMCA:

But the second excuse doesn't hold water under scrutiny. The WT society claimed that, unknown to them, the UN changed their wording on the sign up papers and when this was discovered then they withdrew membership.

The UN printed this reply:

Maybe the UN is lying? Well, here is a copy of an annual sign up form (apologies for the poor quality):

Is it a coincidence that the Watchtower society "discovered" this supposed "new wording" the very same year that the Guardian newspaper printed their story? Maybe. But i think not. If this were a court case the evidence presented above would put the WT society in a very difficult position.

But besides all this. WHY did the average JW not know about the UN involvement? If it really were just to use their library facilities they could have printed that in their Watchtowers back in 1991, thereby informing everyone in case accusations came up. And why did most elders not know?

19

Help Me Regain Contact With My Still In Family

by pale.emperor in

situation is, i'll never return to the wt.

my family with never leave the wt.. depending on who you ask you'll get the following answers when you ask about me:.

my family: he's confused.

pale.emperor

Situation is, i'll never return to the WT. My family with never leave the WT.

Depending on who you ask you'll get the following answers when you ask about me:

My family: He's confused. He needs to speak to the elders and helped to come back.

The elders: He's a lying, mentally diseased apostate. Stay away from him.

Incidentally, i flatly told the elders in my JC that "i dont talk about religion". So why anyone would need to stay away from me "lest i influence them" is beyond me. Also, i've made it clear to my family that im not coming back. Ever. So shunning me to get me to "see sense and return" is pointless to.

But they continue to have nothing to do with me. They want to but they dont. Im fully commited to living a wholesome, happy, loving, generous life outside the organization. Hoping that witnesses will see that im happy and that my family will see this too.

But is it possible that my family will give in, at least in secret, and eventually have fellowship with me again? I really hope so. Im clinging to that hope. I have a brother who is mentally disabled. He must wonder where i am. I get upset thinking about him in case i never see him again. I wonder if he knows im thinking of him and i miss him.

Today one of my sisters text me just after the first day of her convention and said "please get to the convention. Theres a lovely video on disfellowshipping".

Today i text my mum and said "is it ok if i come visit you tomorrow, <my daughter> is asking for you." (she's 2 years old).

My mum replied "no. i cant see you. I'd like to see <daughter> though. Can you have someone bring her over wednesday?"

Sometimes i think of going back, pretending, so i can have my family back. And then fade. But if i do that im living a lie and wasting time on the cult which could be better spent elsewhere.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

21

Could we use the new shunning guidelines to our advantage?

by Island Man in

according to new, officially published guidelines, jws can now shun a person who has not been disfellowshipped from the congregation.

i see this guideline being abused by many jws who have an axe to grind with a fellow jw.

for example, let's say sister peinindiass rubs sister sensitive the wrong way.

pale.emperor

We shouldn’t allow family ties to threaten our loyalty to Jehovah and his organization

It's no coincidence that they always say "Jehovah and his organization", that's loaded language that all cults use. The two fuse together so that Jehovah = the organization and the organization = Jehovah.

Also, have you noticed in the video's and examples in literature that it's always the DF person that is hard heartened, unwilling to listen, not taking his/her family tie into consideration? It's never the other way round. So mentally the cult members think there is no alternative - the DF are the ones in the wrong.

10

Jehovah’s Witnesses and Child Sex Abuse – A Brief Handbook for Attorneys

by Watchtower-Free in

free download.

https://jwvictims.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-child-sex-abuse-a-brief-handbook-for-attorneys/ .

pale.emperor

FANTASTIC. Into my ever growing folder it goes.

8

Disfellowshipping - What It's Supposed To Be

by pale.emperor in

first of all, the wt tell this lie to the rank and file:.

two factors—which must coincide—result in the disfellowshipping of one of jehovah’s witnesses.

first, a baptized witness commits a serious sin.

pale.emperor

First of all, the WT tell this lie to the rank and file:

Two factors—which must coincide—result in the disfellowshipping of one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. First, a baptized Witness commits a serious sin. Second, he does not repent of his sin. http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015287#h=5

Now, of course WE know that's not true. My wife for example when she was DF'd a few years ago was genuinely repentant. She confessed immediately after doing what she did. She was distraught, downtrodden and ashamed. She was DF anyway. But of course the rank and file think a person is disfellowshipped because they obviously wernt repentant for what they did.

Disfellowshipping may bring the wrongdoer to his senses. Jesus once spoke of a young man who left his father’s home and squandered his inheritance on a life of debauchery. The prodigal son learned the hard way that life outside his father’s home was empty and heartless. The son finally came to his senses, repented, and took the initiative to return to his family. (Luke 15:11-24) Jesus’ description of the loving father who rejoiced at his son’s change of heart helps us understand Jehovah’s feelings. “I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that someone wicked changes his way and keeps living,” he assures us.—Ezek. 33:11. http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015287#h=19

Tell me. When the prodigal son returned. How long did he have to wait before his father embraced him back? A year? Two years? No, he welcomed him back immediately. Those who stop their sinful course and repent should be welcomed back right away.

I understand the need to keep the congregation clean. Remember, Paul said "let him be like a man of the nations". Tell me, how to witnesses treat their non witness relatives or neighbors? Sure, they dont have much to do with them, but do they shun them??? No. They just have limited contact. THATS how a DF person should be treated.

They shouldn't be emotionally blackmailed to come back so they can get their parents back, or the children back, or their siblings back.

1 Corinthians 5:11 - But now I am writing you to stop keeping company*+ with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral* or a greedy person+ or an idolater or a reviler* or a drunkard+ or an extortioner,+ not even eating with such a man.

The key phrase here is "anyone called a brother". If someone leaves, they're not calling themselves a brother. And if someone was "an idolater or a reviler* or a drunkard+ or an extortioner" then surely we wouldnt NEED to be told not to hang around with them. We wouldn't want to anyway.

There are other reproofs that would be beneficial for someone who has strayed but genuinely wants to serve God. Shunning them is so the opposite of Christianity its unreal.

22

How To Spot A Cult - This is what started woke me up!!

by pale.emperor in

this is the article that woke me up.

i felt sick after reading it.

then sad.

pale.emperor

I remember an elder saying this regarding apostates:

Apostates are only interested in making you leave Jehovah. They don't say "your religion is rubbish, THIS is the truth over here..." no, they just say "your religion is rubbish" and destroy it.

Now, hold on a second. If my apartment was on fire. My first reaction would be to GET OUT. I wouldn't be too concerned WHERE, i'd just know the first thing is to get out.

But hey, what do we know? We're all "mentally diseased" remember. (WT 2011, 7/15pp 15-19)

22

How To Spot A Cult - This is what started woke me up!!

by pale.emperor in

this is the article that woke me up.

i felt sick after reading it.

then sad.

pale.emperor

I used to think ALL of those sites warning about cults were targeting JW's. It's only when i left that i realised they're not targeting any specific cult - it just so happens that the WT org ticks all the boxes!

Check out this other one. http://www.esama.ca/warning-signs-that-you-are-in-a-cult

Im gonna be honest here, reading the last paragraph made me well up:

Cults will always divide the family unit instead of bringing them together. They will make you choose between God and their church. They use scriptures such as: "Jesus came to bring a sword, not peace" or "one must give up brothers, sisters, wife, and house for the kingdom and be a true follower". Children often become the most hurt because of strict rules enforced on them. They lose their childhood and are deeply affected, being unable to adjust later on in life. Religious systems that are not balanced can be socially and psychologically disastrous for innocent children.