Posts by pale.emperor

34

5/6/18 cleveland ohio circuit assembly notes

by nowwhat? in

willoughby assembly hall.

1400+ attendance 5 baptised a robust 0.38 growth!.

$11k expenses however 1st.

pale.emperor

Days away from Armageddon?

So were those in attendance told to stop contributing to the world wide work? Has the building work come to a complete stop now because of this?

No point building new buildings if they're going to be destroyed right?

9

Interview With An Apostate: Pale.Emperor

by pale.emperor in

tell us a little about yourself and your family.. 33yp guy from liverpool, england.

2nd generation, born in.

baptized at 19, left age 31. divorced with a 4yo daughter.

pale.emperor

Tell us a little about yourself and your family.

33yp guy from Liverpool, England. 2nd generation, born in. Baptized at 19, left age 31. Divorced with a 4yo daughter. I always felt that being a JW held me back, there were things i really wanted to pursue and learn but it was impossible being a JW and a university student or entertainer. My family cut all ties to non JW family when i was little so i was very close to my JW family but I've never even met my non JW cousins (and there's a lot of them!), i wouldn't even know who they were if i bumped into them.

Were you a born in or a convert?

Born in.

Are your parents / family JWs?

Yes. Although my father died 13 years ago. Parents converted in 1976. My mum grew up in foster homes and was exposed to the religion when she was 15. The org became her parent and she's fiercely loyal to it.

How many generations have been JWs?

Dad brought in his two brothers and his father in the 1970s. So im a 2nd gen, but my grandfather converted before i was born so technically a 3rd gen.

Did you hold any position in the WTS? (MS, Elder etc...)

No. I was constantly given "positive peer pressure" by my elder father in law to "reach out" but i never wanted to be one. More work, more bullshit. It was bad enough doing the mic and sound duties for no gratitude.

Did you *really* believe in the bible, in spirits (angels, demons)?

Absolutely. I was very studious and a 100% believer. My fathers family had it's share of clairvoyants and spirit mediums, so my dad had lots of stories about demons. So i believed in demons too. And if demons were real, then god must be real too i figured.

Did you get baptised? When and why?

Baptized at 19. I was dating a JW girl and there was no was it could be taken seriously unless i was baptized. Plus everyone was asking me when i was going to get baptized, so it was just expected of me.

What was the initial trigger that made you start questioning things?

Elders interfering with my life. Constantly being called in for questioning over stupid things that wern't even any of their business. The black and white thinking the magazines used really irritated me because i had secret work friends that were (and still are) my best friends - there were nothing like how the magazines were painting them. Also, i met a brother who collected old Watchtower publications and he said "it's no wonder they believed 1975". I was always told that the magazines never mentioned it, and it was "some" people going off on their own ideas. When he shown me the actual mags and books in print it really shook me.

Where did you find information? Internet sites? Books?

Their own literature initially. As i said, i was very studious. I wanted to know it all. The KH library had lots of Rutherford books so i borrowed one each week and couldn't believe what i was reading. They've since destroyed all those books now so i hear. After that it was Crises Of Conscience and this website.

How difficult or painful was the process of leaving?

It was worse than i thought. But mine is a special case. I woke up about a third of the way into Crises Of Conscience. I knew i had to leave but thought my family would respect my decision. When i disassociated my family were on at me everyday to meet with the elders! When i relented and did meet with an elder it turned out to be a JC of three of them there. I was disfellowshipped for "apostasy" despite having already DA'd. This isn't actually allowed but I've heard that im not the first that this has happened do. Apparently it looks better on Watchtowers stats for them to kick me out rather than me leave realizing it's bullshit. Being officially DF'd, my entire family now shun me. One of my sisters invents stories about me and JWs check my Facebook and make stuff up from what they see.

Was it a big dramatic exit or a careful quiet fade?

I tried to fade. I managed to not go out on the ministry for a whole year. I was regular at the meetings though and would occasionally drop seeds to the tired, fed up members who saw the hypocrisy of the elders.

Did you convince anyone else to leave with you?

I did try to wake up my wife but she would get upset and ask her elder father the stuff i'd discussed with her.

How were your family relations affected by your decision?

Completely destroyed. My mother tells people i died.

Were you or are you still being shunned by those who didn't leave?

Yes. Every JW, family or not, shun me completely.

How long have you now been out?

Almost 2 years.

Was there anything you looked forward to doing when you left?

Lie in's on the weekend and all that free time to do whatever. And making real friends. The world is a wonderful interesting place now.

What are you most proud of achieving since you left?

Making real friends and dating women who were actually suitable to me.

Is there anything you miss about life in the congregation?

No!

Red pill or blue pill? Do you regret waking up to reality at all?

No. I only wish I'd woken up long ago.

Did you become an atheist or transfer your faith elsewhere?

I eventually became an atheist. When i first left i still believed in some sort of creator but after looking at what science and evidence had to say i conclude that the universe developed naturally.

How do you now feel about religion in general?

It's a delusion. Storied invented be people who couldn't explain something before science had the answer. If it keeps someone sane and happy and harmless then i've no problem with it. But when it asks for money, the killing of non believers and exemption from reporting crimes to the authorities then i have a problem with it.

Do you feel any guilt celebrating xmas or birthdays or doing any other JW "no-no"s?

No. I used to feel a teeny bit guilty having sex with girls but not anymore.

Have you attended any face-to-face meetups of ex-JWs?

No. But i'd love to.

Describe your circle of friends - mostly other ex-JWs or regular people?

Regular people. I've only ever met about 3 ex JWs from my past. All have some sort of issues still left inside them from the cult.

Do you tell people about your JW past?

Yes. I find it to be a great expose, plus i have a lot of funny stories that people just wouldn't believe. My upbringing and former beliefs were so whacky people are entertained by it.

Do you feel animosity or pity toward current JWs?

Pity. I hate the Watchtower society, not JWs.

How do you respond to witnesses when they call at your door?

I only wish they would! If they did i wouldn't tell them im an ex-member. I'd ask lots of questions.

Storm the barricades or tend to the wounded? (do you favor activism or support)

A bit of both. You have to be careful though because the idea of a raving, angry apostate plays right into the GB's hands.

What do you think is the most effective approach to reaching people still in?

Exposing the Watchtowers own writings and flip-flops. But not in a mocking way.

Do you think the WTS can or should be destroyed, will continue on as-is or grow / change?

I think it'll morph into something else or will splinter off. Even if the GB ran off to Rio with their 19yo girlfriends and all the money there's still hardcore believers who would take this as a fulfilled prophecy and start their own JW2.0 religion. I hope this happens in my lifetime.

How has your life been impacted by your JW past?

I never go to go to university of discover the real world. Thankfully im making up for that now and studying in Uni to be a therapist for ex-cult victims.

Are there things in your life you blame the WTS for?

There's still some negative self talk that im working on rooting out. The black and white thinking. Getting rid of the loaded language like "the world", "the truth", "the society" etc has been difficult.

JW upbringing - a protection or a curse?

A curse. If you're looking for advice on raising well adjusted non-judgemental children stay well clear of the Watchtower society publications.

How do you fill your time now it's not filled with meetings and field service?

I have lots of interests. Im a photographer and work with a lot of models, some of which have become my friends. I take art classes. I go to the theater and i study things that are actually useful.

Do you still have an interest in JW beliefs and doctrines?

Yes. It's funny because when i was a JW i had a fascination with Mormonism and it's history. Im somewhat of an expert in the Mormon religion. Since leaving i've swapped it for Watchtowerism. I follow whats going on and i think us ex-members are better informed than active members now.

How much of your time is still spent on JW related matters?

Too much. I've had to wean myself away. I visit this site daily, I watch Lloyd Evans rebuttals. Unfortunately i think about Watchtower all the time. It's annoying because there's unresolved conflict that i cant just deal with because my family wont talk to me to set the record straight.

What do you think of the ex-JW community?

I love it. I like that it's growing and there's a general sense of brotherhood. We dont always get on but at least we're honest about it!

Do you see yourself still being associated with the ex-JW community in 5 or 10 years time?

Yes.

Do you fear the future?

No.

What advice would you give to anyone starting the journey of leaving the WTS?

Take it slow if you want to. Read, research and dont tell anybody. Dont feel like you need to explain yourself to anyone if you miss a meeting etc.

What would you change in your life if you could go back and talk to yourself?

Stop letting the elders boss me around and dont put up with their bullshit. Read their guidebook and know it like the back of my hand (like i do now).

Do you have any regrets about life since you left?

None whatsoever.

Can we read your life-story anywhere? (links to online or books)

I have a YouTube channel. But i only make a video when i think i have something to add that no one has done yet. I may write my story but I dont feel the burning desire to at the moment. If i do I wouldn't sell it or anything, it'd publish it in eBook format for free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QC3j1hKxWQ&t=200s

4

Jehovahs Witness found dead in Bali hotel

by Solaris11 in

warren borsje an active 2nd generation jehovah's witness who made millions as a get-rich get salesman was found dead earlier this year in a hotel in seminyak, bali (reference).

reports given to the police confirmed borsje appeared intoxicated prior to his death and needed assistance by fellow hotel guests to get to his room.

when he didn't show up the following day to check out, hotel staff found him lying face down with blood around his mouth.

pale.emperor

Terribly sad. Hope his family are bearing up.

11

Highlights from Leaked Bethel Videos - part 8, random stuff

by neat blue dog in

this time we get to see a new shot of the interior of the gb's board room.

this is where the magic happens lol.. .

here's a picture of a british couple.

pale.emperor

What is it about the front row? In each congregation they tend to avoid the front rows like the plague.

31

Atheists - How Did You Become An Atheist After Waking Up?

by pale.emperor in

i consider myself an atheist.

and right now i'm reading a lot on atheism in general (books written to answer creationists).. i'd be interested in knowing how you became an atheist after leaving the jws and how long did it take?

was it instant or did your belief in a deity gradually decline?.

pale.emperor

As a true believer before I left the religion it puzzled me no end that after nearly 100 years of preaching D2D that if I went around the block where I lived and asked people what they knew about J.W.`s their answer would be they don`t take blood transfusions or they just come round bible bashing or they dont salute the flag and that`s about it .
And I began to think what a waste of time ? their is something seriously wrong here ?

I know what you mean smiddy3.

It used to really confuse me (and annoy me) that we boasted about being active in almost all lands and preaching gods kingdom for over 100 years - yet nobody even knew what we believed! If God were calling us into account for preaching his word he'd surely have found us lacking. Wernt the stones supposed to cry out if nobody witnessed? (Luke 19:40)

31

Atheists - How Did You Become An Atheist After Waking Up?

by pale.emperor in

i consider myself an atheist.

and right now i'm reading a lot on atheism in general (books written to answer creationists).. i'd be interested in knowing how you became an atheist after leaving the jws and how long did it take?

was it instant or did your belief in a deity gradually decline?.

pale.emperor

I consider myself an atheist. And right now i'm reading a lot on atheism in general (books written to answer creationists).

I'd be interested in knowing how you became an atheist after leaving the JWs and how long did it take? Was it instant or did your belief in a deity gradually decline?

When I woke up from the Watchtower cult I still believed in some sort of god. It wasn't until a few months later that i came to the conclusion that there probably is not god. Looking back i can see that it happened in stages:

Still believed in Jehovah, but not the Watchtower (this is when i considered myself "awake" from Watchtower.
Still believed the bible, but that it was gods general thoughts that had been watered down and corrupted over time.
Believed in a god/goddess
Studied Hinduism/Paganism/Old Norse religion and was open to the idea of worshiping nature under the personification of gods (at this stage i think i was just grasping at straws)
Read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and had a very real mental shift. I was off kilter for a few weeks not really sure of myself.
Decided that there's no evidence for any god and that the most important thing is to treat myself and others well regardless.

After becoming an atheist again (i say "again" because we were all born atheists) there was a lot of things to think about and to deal with. Yes, i will die and never come back. No, i'll never see my dead father and grandparents again - the memories I have of them are all that are left. Yes, i should work to make my community/country/world a better place, no, nobody is going to solve world hunger overnight.

At the end of it all though, it's made me a much happier, grateful and kinder person. Anyone else feel that way?

63

2018 Convention movie: Jonah.... oh my god it's bad......!

by stuckinarut2 in

so, once again the society has produced a cringe-worthy, spew-inducing piece of "cinema".. i don't recognise this religion anymore...... enjoy this review:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0tovqkfem.

pale.emperor

Love how Jonah's sister is an airhead who just cooks and cleans and blindly believes anything she's told.

Wasnt aware he even had a sister.

13

What's it like these days for teenagers?

by JeffT in

jw
friends

i converted at age 22, and left 15 years later (1988) so i don't really know what its like to be in high school as a jw.

for those of you who do know: do teenage jw's hang out with each other?

worldly kids?

pale.emperor

My teenage years were the mid 90s to early 00s. Looking back I'm suprised I turned out relatively well adjusted.

I wasn't an elders kid so I wasn't in the clique. Always left out of parties and wedding invites when literally everyone else my age in the KH was invited. I wasn't allowed to play out with friends because they weren't JW. The only JWs in my school were my two sisters and one of my cousins. I did manage to make friends in high school - being a geek I was in the geek gang but I really enjoyed it. It was great to have friends (about 10 in our gang).

Wasnt allowed to stay after school for clubs like sports or extra classes that I actually would have loved to do. I always wanted to learn German and my school offered it after school on Thursdays and Tuesdays... meeting days. But I wasn't allowed to join after school clubs snyway so it wouldn't have mattered.

By age 15 I started to just ignore my parents demands and I would stay behind after school to use the internet with my friends. Internet wasn't allowed at home due to some Watchtower article or something my parents had read. My mum actually said "I don't like the internet. It's full of information". So Yh, that's the sort of mentality I was up against. But my dad relented because I was learning guitar and all the sheet music was online free so it was actually helping me. My dad came from a very musically inclined family so he was over the moon to see me take an interest in music.

One major thing for me about high school was handling bullies. I was never bullied as such, but kids knew they could do whatever and I wouldn't hit them back. My asshole mother had indoctrinated me since day 1 that to fight back is unchristian and I should wait for Jehovah to handle them in Armageddon. Bullies didn't make an issue of the JW thing because one of the tough kids that everyone liked had a dad who is a JW and min servant (this kid was fortunate enough to have a non JW mother and wasn't raised as one).

I didn't seem to have it as bad as others. I genuinely believed the Watchtower crap. So wasn't ashamed of being identified as a JW.

Eventually there sprouted up a great party scene in the NW of England and my sisters were always invited because boys liked them. I would tag along and slowly broke out of my very shy self. There was a party almost every weekend. Manchester, North Wales, Liverpool, Bolton - you got to meet loads of people and I have some great memories. Funny, the vast majority of these people have all woke up and left!

I remember one guy used to host epic parties. He'd empty his house of all the furniture and every room was bouncing. It was so good he got disfellowshipped for it. Now THAT was a party.

17

August 2018 Study Watchtower - Some wise words for JW's to consider!

by The Fall Guy in

do you have the facts?.

page 3 - as true christians, we need to develop the ability to evaluate information and reach accurate conclusions.. page 4 - it is especially important to avoid (view) websites promoted by apostates.

(awakened jw's) their whole purpose is to tear down (inform) god’s people and to distort (reveal) the truth.

pale.emperor

It's very strange to read. The things they're accusing "the apostates" of are the very things they're doing.

They advise the reader to look for reliable information, then tell them not to waste their time! How can someone know if information is factual or not without even looking at it in the first place???

To make good decisions, we need solid facts. Therefore, we need to be highly selective and to choose carefully what information we will read. (Read Philippians 4:8, 9.) We should not waste our time viewing questionable Internet news sites or reading unsubstantiated reports circulated via e-mail. It is especially important to avoid websites promoted by apostates.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-august-2018/do-you-have-facts/

12

Appointments

by asp59 in

how big you think the percentage of reaching out for appointments in organization is base on:.

a brother wanted receive praise from other'sb wanted to marry thought having appointment would make that possiblec wife push him if he was marriedd pressure from other'se a career pathf possibility to dominate/control othersg he wanted to have appointment cause of love and wanted to help others..

pale.emperor

I never wanted to be a MS or Elder. But i did get a lot of "positive peer pressure" from my elder father in law.

I saw F happen a lot though. The G's tended to stay MS's indefinitely i noticed.