Excellent analogy.
John Legend - Everybody knows, but nobody really knows...
evilApostate
JoinedPosts by evilApostate
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Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible
by Simon injws like to think they have found the one true religion.
but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?
not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?
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Knock knock."Who's there? Two elders!!
by Darkknight757 inso today was a cold and snowy day in my neck of the woods and the wife and i were just chilling around the house waiting to go to the church tonight for a candle lighting service when lo and behold we get a knock on the door.
yup, 2 elders from my old hall.
i figured they were fishing for some time so i invited them in and gave them some coffee and we talked about everything that happened and why we walk away from the jw's.
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evilApostate
Either way I was brutally honest with them and told them how it is. So they want to come back. I left them with the question regarding Genesis chapter 1 and how the creator of the universe doesn't know that trees require sunlight. They were dumbfounded.
Lol. I bet they will say that he created light and darkness in day one, even though the sun wasn't made until day 4. Where would the light come from? Another bible contradiction I guess.
3 And God said: “Let there be light.” Then there was light.+ 4 After that God saw that the light was good, and God began to divide the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, but the darkness he called Night.+And there was evening and there was morning, a first day.
When they come back, tell them that the snake told the truth in the garden of eden:
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6252278996533248/satan-really-bad-guy-story-creation
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"I'm firm in my beliefs": Hypocrisy and Delusion
by schnell ini have a friend who said he'll have to stop listening to me after i told him about yahweh's origins in canaanite religion, because he's firm in his beliefs.. i have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and i should too.
she is also firm in her beliefs.. i have talked to an elder about evolution, and as i made the case for it and against creationism, he said that at some point i have to decide that there is a creator.
he too is firm in his beliefs.. all of these people will also talk about going out in service.
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evilApostate
People who act in opposition to their own beliefs or who hold two or more contradictory beliefs may eventually suffer from cognitive dissonance. If someone knowingly places faith in a false belief system then they are acting in opposition to what they know in their heart. This causes stress and may result in depression and even physical illness.
This is why I said it is foolish to put faith in a belief system you know to be false. It's like pretending your partner is faithful when you know they are cheating.
I have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and I should too. She is also firm in her beliefs.
schnell, your mom is only hurting herself. You say she goes to meetings even though she knows it is wrong. Hence, she is acting in opposition to what she knows in her heart. Cognitive dissonance is wide spread among JWs. Consider shunning someone (an unloving act) who you love. Such action is painful to the person doing it; probably even more than the person receiving it.
In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time; performs an action that is contradictory to their beliefs, ideas, or values; or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas or values.
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"I'm firm in my beliefs": Hypocrisy and Delusion
by schnell ini have a friend who said he'll have to stop listening to me after i told him about yahweh's origins in canaanite religion, because he's firm in his beliefs.. i have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and i should too.
she is also firm in her beliefs.. i have talked to an elder about evolution, and as i made the case for it and against creationism, he said that at some point i have to decide that there is a creator.
he too is firm in his beliefs.. all of these people will also talk about going out in service.
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evilApostate
@David_Jay
I appreciate your commentary on the issue but I respectfully disagree with some of your points.
1) Nobody wants to be wrong - While this may be true I don't think that it is a valid argument to make. I often hear people saying, "Everyone does this." Or, "Nobody does that." However, what justifies doing or not doing something isn't how many people do it or not do it. The questions we must always ask are, "Is it rational? Is it correct? Is it beneficial?" It doesn't matter how many people partake or do not partake in an activity. What matters is that they have valid reasons for partaking.
I may also be prone to not wanting to be wrong. Yet, it doesn't mean that I can't fight the urge. One needs to recognize it when they are wrong and make appropriate adjustments for their own good. Just because everone makes mistakes, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't avoid making them.
I know many people who try to accept it when they are wrong. However, some don't even put in the effort.
2) The El of the Hebrews is not the El of the Canaanites - I find this hard to believe when all the evidence points the other way. Many parts of the Old Testament support the view that they were were the same.
Examples:
a) Abraham accepting the blessing of the Canaanite El.
b) Yahweh recieving his rights over Israel from El.
c) Canaanites worshipping Yahweh (E.g. Baalam was not an Israelite and yet sought to curse Israel via Yahweh. (Numbers 22:1-12)
d) The mention of other gods in heaven's courts with Yahweh being the most high.
There are many others. I mentioned some in a recent thread of mine. (I would like your opinion on it if you have the time.)
3) Jews know more about their own religion than anyone else - To me, it seemed like you implied this. Someone who already has a bias towards a particular belief will most likely defend it even if they are wrong. Jews already think that Yahweh is not El. Real Christians already think that God is real. Hence, they possess a bias. I am not trying to say that any information from a Jew about Yahweh and El is incorrect. However, it seems logical to think that such a person would likely be biased. Therefore, I don't think that being a Jew or Christian makes you more qualified to speak about Yahweh, El or God than anyone else.
4) The last bit about Wrongology - It seems that I upset you a bit. This was not my intention. However, I didn't mean that beliefs cause people to be "mentally lazy, dishonest, cowards and foolish." In fact, I stated that if someone knowingly places faith in a belief system that is incorrect then they are displaying mental laziness, dishonesty, cowardice and foolishness. i.e. People should give their best effort to reform ideas which they themselves know to be incorrect. Someone who knowingly accepts a false belief system displays cowardice by not facing their fear of being wrong.
I started off my post by stating that I have no problem with anyone displaying faith in something which has not been thoroughly disproven. Hence, belief is not something I have a problem with; our very lives rest upon a multitude of them. What I do not accept is the inability of some to face the fact that a belief may be incorrect.
Therefore, if you can thoroughly disprove that Canaanite El = Hebrew El, then I am obligated to discard a false belief. However, if you cannot then I will keep my current belief since all the evidence I have seen points in that direction.
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"I'm firm in my beliefs": Hypocrisy and Delusion
by schnell ini have a friend who said he'll have to stop listening to me after i told him about yahweh's origins in canaanite religion, because he's firm in his beliefs.. i have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and i should too.
she is also firm in her beliefs.. i have talked to an elder about evolution, and as i made the case for it and against creationism, he said that at some point i have to decide that there is a creator.
he too is firm in his beliefs.. all of these people will also talk about going out in service.
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evilApostate
I can accept someone having faith in something which has not been disproven. However, I think its rather foolish for one to place faith in something which has been disproven quite thoroughly.
An honest and intelligent person would accept it if they realise they have incorrect beliefs and continue searching for real truth.
Take for example exams. If you were in an exam and you knew your answers were wrong and you also still had time, would you knowingly hand up your paper with the wrong answers? An intelligent person would try their hardest to hand up the correct answers rather than handing up incorrect ones, simply because it's easier.
Those knowingly placing faith in false belief systems are mentally lazy, dishonest, cowards and foolish. A man can believe that he can fly. However, when he jumps from a cliff he is sure to fall to his ruin.
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Should a Priest ,Elder ,Pastor withold a crime from the relevant authorities because of a confidential confessional ?
by smiddy inwhat do you believe , is a confessional something that is sacred between the the two parties involved ?
or does it depend on the severity of the crime/sin.. or is their a responsability of the recpient of the confession to divulge what he/she knows about the crime.?.
what we see in movies ,tv, etc shows it is a no no .but is that true ?the confessional is only between the two involved.?.
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evilApostate
When I went to my counselor he handed me an agreement to sign before we started our session. It basically stated that if I told him of any crimes or intention to commit crime like murder, rape etc then he would have to warn the person involved and the authorities. He said that it was required by law.
If rules like these apply to counselors and the like, then why should they not also apply to priests/pastors?
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Elder wants to stop by with the CO for a visit .
by NikL inso i got a text from an elder who i consider one of the good guys and a friend in his own way.. he asked if he could bring the co by for a visit.
he said it would be "just a pleasant call and visit and will hopefully encourage my wife".
he says that "he knows she is dealing with a ton of pressure".. in all my years around the organization, i never had a visit from the circuit overseer.
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evilApostate
If they are just coming over for your wife, then why do you have to be there? It sounds to me that they already moved on from you.
You have no idea what I just thought. lol
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Scriptures which link Yahweh to the Canaanite god El.
by evilApostate intoday, i want to share some scriptures i have come across in my research which show the link between yahweh and the canaanite god el.
el and other variations such as elyon, el shaddai and elohim appear many times in the bible.
these are usually translated as god, most high, god almighty and so on.
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evilApostate
The roots of the concept might go back to Amun-Ra
Amun is also sometimes spelt Amon or Amen. Some have theorized that the hebrews took this word from egypt. Others say it is simply coincidence. Whichever one, it is still pretty funny that Christians all end their prayer by calling on the name of an egyptian god.
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Scriptures which link Yahweh to the Canaanite god El.
by evilApostate intoday, i want to share some scriptures i have come across in my research which show the link between yahweh and the canaanite god el.
el and other variations such as elyon, el shaddai and elohim appear many times in the bible.
these are usually translated as god, most high, god almighty and so on.
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evilApostate
Is there a book specifically about the evolution of Yahweh? Like from his origins in Canaanite religion and mythology to God and Jesus? That's the clear picture I get from composite reading of multiple books, but one definitive book on the subject, I am not aware of.
I came across this one while researching:
https://books.google.com/books?id=-eOycxXAoHMC&hl=en
I haven't read it myself but I have previewed parts of it on google books. It contains some information on Yahweh and his relationship to El.
There are many other books on Canaanite and Hebrew religion in the references section in the links I gave and also in the references section of topics like Yahweh and El on Wikipedia.
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Scriptures which link Yahweh to the Canaanite god El.
by evilApostate intoday, i want to share some scriptures i have come across in my research which show the link between yahweh and the canaanite god el.
el and other variations such as elyon, el shaddai and elohim appear many times in the bible.
these are usually translated as god, most high, god almighty and so on.
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evilApostate
Today, I want to share some scriptures I have come across in my research which show the link between Yahweh and the Canaanite god El. El and other variations such as Elyon, El Shaddai and Elohim appear many times in the bible. These are usually translated as God, Most High, God Almighty and so on. El was the Father god or "Most High" Canaanite god. (All scriptures taken from the New Living Translation.)
1) Exodus 6:2,3 - And God said to Moses, "I am Yahweh--'the LORD.' I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai--'God Almighty'--but I did not reveal my name, Yahweh, to them.
The above shows that originally, the name 'Yahweh' was never used. It states that he appeared to them as El Shaddai.
2) Genesis 14:18-22 - And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High, brought Abram some bread and wine. Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing: "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High, who has defeated your enemies for you." Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered. The king of Sodom said to Abram, "Give back my people who were captured. But you may keep for yourself all the goods you have recovered."Abram replied to the king of Sodom, "I solemnly swear to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth,...
As mentioned before, Elyon or simply El was the "Most High" Canaanite god. Sodom and Gomoroh as well as Salem were located in the land of Canaan. Therefore, the priest mentioned above was a priest of El, the Canaanite god. He wasn't a priest of Yahweh. Eventually, the Israelites would begin to refer to El as Yahweh and Yahweh as El.
It is interesting to note that Abraham had no objection to being blessed in the name of the Canaanite god El. He also responded to the priest using the same name.
3) Deuteronomy 6:7,8,9 - Remember the days of long ago; think about the generations past. Ask your father, and he will inform you. Inquire of your elders, and they will tell you. When the Most High assigned lands to the nations, when he divided up the human race, he established the boundaries of the peoples according to the number in his heavenly court. "For the people of Israel belong to the LORD; Jacob is his special possession.
The scripture above states that the Most High (Elyon) portioned the land and that the Lord's (Yahweh's) possession or portion was his people. It does not seem to refer to Yahweh as El, but rather it seems to refer to Yahweh as one of the lesser gods; one of those in the heavenly court of El. In Canaan, many lesser gods where worshipped in different places. The scripture seems to state that Yahweh inherited rights over Israel from El.
4) Psalm 82:1 - A psalm of Asaph. God presides over heaven's court; he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings.
In Canaan El was the highest god and there were lesser gods (heavenly beings) in the great assembly (heaven's court). The scripture above seems to refer to the same.
Some Christians have mentioned that although the same words were used for God that the Israelites were never refering to the Canaanite god El. This I find hard to believe in the face of so much evidence which point to the opposite.
Consider the following scripture:
Exodus 23:13 - "Pay close attention to all my instructions. You must not call on the name of any other gods. Do not even speak their names.
Why would the Israelites refer to their god as El if they were not to even mention the name of a false god? Interestingly, El is never mentioned negatively in the bible. In fact, he is only mentioned positively. Baal was frequently mentioned negatively but never El.
Tell me what you think and share any additional information you may have below.
Btw, names like Israel (He who triumphs with God (El)), Bethel (House of El) etc. are based on the name El and not Yahweh. Jacob called one of his sons Gad and another one Asher. Gad was the god of luck in Canaan and Ashera was the consort of El.
Material for further reading:
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Canaanite_Religion