today, i want to share some scriptures i have come across in my research which show the link between yahweh and the canaanite god el.
el and other variations such as elyon, el shaddai and elohim appear many times in the bible.
these are usually translated as god, most high, god almighty and so on.
The roots of the concept might go back to Amun-Ra
Amun is also sometimes spelt Amon or Amen. Some have theorized that the hebrews took this word from egypt. Others say it is simply coincidence. Whichever one, it is still pretty funny that Christians all end their prayer by calling on the name of an egyptian god.
today, i want to share some scriptures i have come across in my research which show the link between yahweh and the canaanite god el.
el and other variations such as elyon, el shaddai and elohim appear many times in the bible.
these are usually translated as god, most high, god almighty and so on.
Is there a book specifically about the evolution of Yahweh? Like from his origins in Canaanite religion and mythology to God and Jesus? That's the clear picture I get from composite reading of multiple books, but one definitive book on the subject, I am not aware of.
I came across this one while researching:
https://books.google.com/books?id=-eOycxXAoHMC&hl=en
I haven't read it myself but I have previewed parts of it on google books. It contains some information on Yahweh and his relationship to El.
There are many other books on Canaanite and Hebrew religion in the references section in the links I gave and also in the references section of topics like Yahweh and El on Wikipedia.
today, i want to share some scriptures i have come across in my research which show the link between yahweh and the canaanite god el.
el and other variations such as elyon, el shaddai and elohim appear many times in the bible.
these are usually translated as god, most high, god almighty and so on.
Today, I want to share some scriptures I have come across in my research which show the link between Yahweh and the Canaanite god El. El and other variations such as Elyon, El Shaddai and Elohim appear many times in the bible. These are usually translated as God, Most High, God Almighty and so on. El was the Father god or "Most High" Canaanite god. (All scriptures taken from the New Living Translation.)
1) Exodus 6:2,3 - And God said to Moses, "I am Yahweh--'the LORD.' I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai--'God Almighty'--but I did not reveal my name, Yahweh, to them.
The above shows that originally, the name 'Yahweh' was never used. It states that he appeared to them as El Shaddai.
2) Genesis 14:18-22 - And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High, brought Abram some bread and wine. Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing: "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High, who has defeated your enemies for you." Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered. The king of Sodom said to Abram, "Give back my people who were captured. But you may keep for yourself all the goods you have recovered."Abram replied to the king of Sodom, "I solemnly swear to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth,...
As mentioned before, Elyon or simply El was the "Most High" Canaanite god. Sodom and Gomoroh as well as Salem were located in the land of Canaan. Therefore, the priest mentioned above was a priest of El, the Canaanite god. He wasn't a priest of Yahweh. Eventually, the Israelites would begin to refer to El as Yahweh and Yahweh as El.
It is interesting to note that Abraham had no objection to being blessed in the name of the Canaanite god El. He also responded to the priest using the same name.
3) Deuteronomy 6:7,8,9 - Remember the days of long ago; think about the generations past. Ask your father, and he will inform you. Inquire of your elders, and they will tell you. When the Most High assigned lands to the nations, when he divided up the human race, he established the boundaries of the peoples according to the number in his heavenly court. "For the people of Israel belong to the LORD; Jacob is his special possession.
The scripture above states that the Most High (Elyon) portioned the land and that the Lord's (Yahweh's) possession or portion was his people. It does not seem to refer to Yahweh as El, but rather it seems to refer to Yahweh as one of the lesser gods; one of those in the heavenly court of El. In Canaan, many lesser gods where worshipped in different places. The scripture seems to state that Yahweh inherited rights over Israel from El.
4) Psalm 82:1 - A psalm of Asaph. God presides over heaven's court; he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings.
In Canaan El was the highest god and there were lesser gods (heavenly beings) in the great assembly (heaven's court). The scripture above seems to refer to the same.
Some Christians have mentioned that although the same words were used for God that the Israelites were never refering to the Canaanite god El. This I find hard to believe in the face of so much evidence which point to the opposite.
Consider the following scripture:
Exodus 23:13 - "Pay close attention to all my instructions. You must not call on the name of any other gods. Do not even speak their names.
Why would the Israelites refer to their god as El if they were not to even mention the name of a false god? Interestingly, El is never mentioned negatively in the bible. In fact, he is only mentioned positively. Baal was frequently mentioned negatively but never El.
Tell me what you think and share any additional information you may have below.
Btw, names like Israel (He who triumphs with God (El)), Bethel (House of El) etc. are based on the name El and not Yahweh. Jacob called one of his sons Gad and another one Asher. Gad was the god of luck in Canaan and Ashera was the consort of El.
Material for further reading:
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Canaanite_Religion
not sure if this has been commented on, but while reading a discussion, deuteronomy 18:22 was mentioned.
i looked it up, and was struck by its connection to a remark made by geoffrey jackson during his arc testimony.
the gist of the scripture is that if a prophet declares something is from god and it doesn't come true, he is speaking presumptuously, and should not be feared.
many of you may remember the july, 2011 study edition watchtower magazine which stated that, "apostates are mentally diseased" ( http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011524?q=mentally+diseased&p=par ).
to jehovah's witnesses, anyone who leaves "the truth" is an apostate.
the funny thing is that logically, anyone who teaches false doctrines is also an apostate.. according to the watchtower, anyone who listens to false teachers also classify as apostates (see http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000309?q=false+teachers&p=par ).
Many of you may remember the July, 2011 study edition Watchtower magazine which stated that, "Apostates are mentally diseased" ( http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011524?q=mentally+diseased&p=par ). To Jehovah's witnesses, anyone who leaves "the truth" is an apostate. The funny thing is that logically, anyone who teaches false doctrines is also an apostate.
According to the Watchtower, anyone who listens to false teachers also classify as apostates (See http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000309?q=false+teachers&p=par ). Now consider, the false doctrine below which has been taught for many years by Watchtower:
"...that some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world; that lovers of righteousness will survive into a cleansed earth." (Reasoning from the scriptures - http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989239 )
After 102 years, the end is nowhere in sight and so the doctrine has been changed to the overlapping generation doctrine; one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.(https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5147536702570496/overlapping-generation-doctrine-epitome-stupidity )
There are countless other predictions and doctrines which have proven to be false. Hence, we can rightfully say that Watchtower is a false teacher. Since anyone who follows a follows a false teacher is an apostate, then anyone who follows Watchtower's teachings is an apostate. And yes, according to Watchtower, Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates. By logical deduction we can conclude that Jehovah's Witnesses "are mentally diseased" - Straight from the horses mouth.
is there gods true worshipers on earth today as jesus said there would be?
if they are not jws then who are they?.
who else comes close to being gods true followers today?.
Since I haven't read through all the posts, I don't know if anyone has said this but, why do you need to join another religious group?
Even though as an agnostic, I have no need for organised religion, there are many Christians who also have no need for organised religion. I know of a few Christians who try to follow the teachings of the bible but don't go to church or affiliate with any religious movement. Just be careful that in your search for 'truth', you don't end up in another cult.
there are many of us on this site that do not believe that jehovah truly exists.. i think this is a great and wonderful thing to be celebrated!
i'd like people to list the reasons why they do not believe that jehovah exists.
this is open to all, not just atheists or agnostics, but anyone that believes that the god as put forward by jw.org does not and can not be real.. i'll start: .
schnell 3 hours ago
The god of the Bible is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. This is a logical fallacy, but Jehovah's Witnesses's explanation that he has "selective knowledge" is even more ridiculous. By that logic, Jehovah is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, and ignorant.
That is not just ignorance; it's negligence. According to them, he chooses not to know certain things to prevent himself from knowingly causing evil. However, negligence does not equal innocence. A better model is to only allow your creation to choose any "good" choices and always avoid harmful ones. This way your creation would possess free-will but would be limited to "good" choices.
It's just like writing an algorithm.
IF choice = "bad"{
Don't choose }
ENDIF
being in a jw family while not being a jw yourslef is pretty hard.
to them, you're just as good as dead because all unbelievers will be eternally destroyed at armageddon.
this problem exists in many other religions.. i once had a friend from work tell me that she wanted me to become a christian like her because if i didn't, i would burn in hell for all eternity.
Being in a JW family while not being a JW yourslef is pretty hard. To them, you're just as good as dead because all unbelievers will be eternally destroyed at Armageddon. This problem exists in many other religions.
I once had a friend from work tell me that she wanted me to become a Christian like her because if I didn't, I would burn in hell for all eternity. I even had an old girlfriend (sorta) who eventually told me that she didn't want to be with a non-christian because she wanted to spend eternity with her soulmate in heaven; since I would go to hell she didn't want to continue the relationship unless I changed my views. I eventually dumped her because I couldn't stand someone trying to impose their belief system on me.
Anyway, let me get to the point. In this world, there are thousands of religions and dieties. All of them are pretty sure they have it right. Most of them say that if you follow the wrong religion or diety then you will be punished upon death. Many of them claim that the existence of prophecies and miracles prove that they are the true religion. However, which one of them are really right? Is there any definitive way to prove that you are correct and everyone else is wrong? No; there isn't!
An important question which arises is, "What if I am punished for worshipping the wrong diety?" Clearly, everyone can't be right at the same time. Therefore, it is pointless for one religion to claim superiority over others when it may also be wrong. Many theists feel that only atheists and agnostics are at risk of punishment. However, if we assume that God is real and we use their logic, then it is even more likely that they will be punished for pissing off the real deity by worshipping the false one.
Hence, IF God is real and is all-loving (which is certainly hard to believe), then it is not rational for him to punish someone simply because of their belief system. It is far more likely that he would judge someone over their choices in life and positive/negative contribution to humanity and the world. Therefore, it is pointless to worry whether or not God is real. Just do the best that you can do in life and make the best choices that you can make. That's all that really counts in my book.
there are many on this site that do not believe that jehovah truly exists; that he is not a real being.
but, he is as real as next breath you draw into your nostrils.. some of you say that there is no evidence that he exists.
yet, none of you can prove that he does not exits.. cofty, (you come to mind), i appreciate that you have stated, without reservation, that you do not believe that god exists.. yet, you cannot prove it.. hope in jehovah..
Even if he did exist I would have a hard time worshipping him. Just read through the old testament; its filled with rape, murder and pillage commanded by Jehovah.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/jehovahs-witness-death-quebec-civil-code-1.3868610.
calls to amend quebec civil code mount in wake of jehovah's witness death.
calls to reform quebec's civil code are mounting in response to the death of éloïse dupuis, a 26-year-old jehovah's witness woman, six days after she gave birth in october.. emergency situations.
I think that parents should not be allowed to force minors to refuse life saving treatment involving blood.
There should also be no coercion on Watchtower's part if a member wants to take blood; i.e. no disfellowshipping/disassociating for taking blood. It should be a personal choice.
