Posts by evilApostate

19

Fight Fire With Fire!

by The Searcher in

wolves use their "loyalty" questions to trap others - "do you believe we're living in the last days/this is god's organization/faithful slave?

" - yet resolutely avoid discussing topics which put their org in a bad light, my "loyalty" question to them would be - "do you accept literature truth over bible truth?

" they will either run or be forced to ask for examples of alleged differences.any other suggestions for "loyalty" questions?.

evilApostate

@ A Believer:

Do you really believe Watchtower propaganda or are you just a troll? Sometimes I just wonder...

19

Fight Fire With Fire!

by The Searcher in

wolves use their "loyalty" questions to trap others - "do you believe we're living in the last days/this is god's organization/faithful slave?

" - yet resolutely avoid discussing topics which put their org in a bad light, my "loyalty" question to them would be - "do you accept literature truth over bible truth?

" they will either run or be forced to ask for examples of alleged differences.any other suggestions for "loyalty" questions?.

Sounds good, but sadly I'm uncertain if such a strategy would help them see the light. They would probably just say that the F&DS are imperfect men and that they make mistakes. Then they will say that one should "wait on Jehoober blablabla". It's not like I haven't heard them say that before.

30

My real name (and a shameless self promotion)

by schnell in

jw
friends

my real name is benjamin heath, i live in southern oregon, usa, and you can always reach me on twitter @ben_heath_.

i have also rebooted my blog at benheathonline.com which is linked with my twitter.

i intend to write about experiences at work and in life, as well as whatever it is i'm reading about at the moment.. i'm a programmer by hobby, a truck driver by profession, an atheist by education and reasoning, and an ex-jw by choice.

evilApostate

Hi Benjamin. Programming? Cool! I've just started learning some Swift and will look into other languages as I continue to learn. I've heard that swift is a lot like Objective-C, so I will probably look into that next. Anyway, nice meeting you!

54

Survey: Are you Agnostic or Atheist or Christian?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

i am agnostic.

i will count how many agnostics, atheists and christians that are reading this forum regularly.

please answer my question.

evilApostate

Agnostic.

In a way everyone is a bit agnostic if you really think about it.

183

The Great Crowd!

by A Believer in

notice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!

a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .

this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!

evilApostate

At Revelation 7:9, the great crowd is not seen as being in heaven. Their “standing before the throne” of God does not require them to be in heaven. They are simply in the sight of God. (Psalm 11:4) The fact that the great crowd, “which no man was able to number,” is not a heavenly class is shown by comparing its unspecified number with what is written at Revelation 7:4-8 and Revelation 14:1-4. There the number taken from the earth to heaven is revealed to be 144,000.

You're still not making any sense. The psalms did not refer to anyone being before the throne and hence it can't be used as comparison. The angels were stated to be around the throne. Are they on earth? No.

Jehovah is in his holy temple.+Jehovah’s throne is in the heavens.+His own eyes see, his watchful* eyes examine the sons of men.+

That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne+ will spread his tent over them.+

The very scriptures you posted shows that they are in heaven. J is on his throne which is in heaven. The GC are before the throne in the temple. Hence, the GC are in heaven.

Anyway, I have no more time to debate this. Its just fiction after all...

183

The Great Crowd!

by A Believer in

notice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!

a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .

this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!

evilApostate

I don't know if someone already said it but, can't you read?

The very scriptures posted said that the great crowd was "before the throne" and in "heaven". How can this be interpreted to mean on earth?

37

Despite their false predictions aren't the JWs right? Won't the world eventually end & Paradise come?

by deegee in

aren't there christian denominations who do not make false end of the world predictions but who nevertheless believe that the world will eventually end and paradise (whether in heaven or on earth) will come?.

it seems the watchtower was just jumping the gun when they made false end of the world predictions but they are nevertheless the right: the world will eventually end and paradise will come..

evilApostate

You may believe so, but can you prove it?

50

Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible

by Simon in

jws like to think they have found the one true religion.

but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?

not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?

evilApostate

Excellent analogy.

John Legend - Everybody knows, but nobody really knows...

34

Knock knock."Who's there? Two elders!!

by Darkknight757 in

so today was a cold and snowy day in my neck of the woods and the wife and i were just chilling around the house waiting to go to the church tonight for a candle lighting service when lo and behold we get a knock on the door.

yup, 2 elders from my old hall.

i figured they were fishing for some time so i invited them in and gave them some coffee and we talked about everything that happened and why we walk away from the jw's.

evilApostate

Either way I was brutally honest with them and told them how it is. So they want to come back. I left them with the question regarding Genesis chapter 1 and how the creator of the universe doesn't know that trees require sunlight. They were dumbfounded.

Lol. I bet they will say that he created light and darkness in day one, even though the sun wasn't made until day 4. Where would the light come from? Another bible contradiction I guess.

3 And God said: “Let there be light.” Then there was light.+ 4 After that God saw that the light was good, and God began to divide the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, but the darkness he called Night.+And there was evening and there was morning, a first day.

When they come back, tell them that the snake told the truth in the garden of eden:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6252278996533248/satan-really-bad-guy-story-creation

11

"I'm firm in my beliefs": Hypocrisy and Delusion

by schnell in

jw
friends

i have a friend who said he'll have to stop listening to me after i told him about yahweh's origins in canaanite religion, because he's firm in his beliefs.. i have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and i should too.

she is also firm in her beliefs.. i have talked to an elder about evolution, and as i made the case for it and against creationism, he said that at some point i have to decide that there is a creator.

he too is firm in his beliefs.. all of these people will also talk about going out in service.

evilApostate

People who act in opposition to their own beliefs or who hold two or more contradictory beliefs may eventually suffer from cognitive dissonance. If someone knowingly places faith in a false belief system then they are acting in opposition to what they know in their heart. This causes stress and may result in depression and even physical illness.

This is why I said it is foolish to put faith in a belief system you know to be false. It's like pretending your partner is faithful when you know they are cheating.

I have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and I should too. She is also firm in her beliefs.

schnell, your mom is only hurting herself. You say she goes to meetings even though she knows it is wrong. Hence, she is acting in opposition to what she knows in her heart. Cognitive dissonance is wide spread among JWs. Consider shunning someone (an unloving act) who you love. Such action is painful to the person doing it; probably even more than the person receiving it.

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time; performs an action that is contradictory to their beliefs, ideas, or values; or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas or values.