i'm voting in a national election for the first time in over 20 years.
it feels good to be part of the process once more.
i'm wondering how the rest of you feel about it.
Oops. I meant Gore, damn it, Gore. I must get confused because they both have four letters in their name.
Hmm. I wonder if some people made the same mistake in the voting booth?
Maybe we should have a new election and make Gore and Bush change their names to something less confusing to the likes or me. How about Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee?
i'm voting in a national election for the first time in over 20 years.
it feels good to be part of the process once more.
i'm wondering how the rest of you feel about it.
I'm voting in a national election for the first time in over 20 years. It feels good to be part of the process once more.
I'm wondering how the rest of you feel about it. Are you voting? Did you feel a little guilty the first time you became part of "this old system of things" again (or for the first time)? Who did you vote for?
As for me, I did feel a little funny back in the summer when I took an interest in the election, but now it seems quite natural. At the risk of ticking off those Republicans among us, I voted for Bush.
Peter
just a thought.... the 144,000 with the heavenly hope were sealed in 1935 (ok, they don't push the idea openly but it's still the party line).. everyone else has an earthly hope.. just because you have a heavenly hope doesn't mean that you can't 'fall away'.
why, look at that 'no good' ray franz.... so, someone has to take their place.. now, does god make someone want a heavenly hope or does he pick someone who wanted to have a heavenly hope but was going to be disappointed.. who's choice is it...do individuals have free will over what they want.
In my old congregation, we had 4 annointed. It was one of the first congregations established in Massachusetts, so we had a lot of old timers. A couple of new converts got the idea they were of the annointed, too. One changed his mind and drifted out of the organization. He was my best friend for a while, and I believe that he truly believed he was one of them. It wasn't a flash of light, it was just a feeling he got. No one questioned him.
The other one, at least when I was still a JW 4 years ago, still believed he was one of the annointed. He was a bit weird, but otherwise a sincere person. Funny how the mind works.
The one I remember best was a jerk at another congregation. He loved the limelight. He was always putting on a show of piety for the troops. Deep down (well not that deep) he was a class A turkey. One day he decides he has the heavenly call. He tells everyone he no longer has any desire to live forever on earth. Instead heaven is calling him. He canceled his order on the luxury yacht he ordered as just one proof that earth would not be his home for long. Last I knew he was still here. Maybe he should have bought the boat after all.
when i first checked out this board i also thought it was a board for active witnesses.
the more i read, the more i realized that it was pretty much a x-jw board--more to my liking.
i disassociated myself in december of '98.
Someone posts about politics, religion, science or any other "deep" subject, and there are handfull of responses.
Someone talks about mounting blocks or any casual reference to sex, and the board comes alive.
Being shallow is great, is great, isn't it?
Hey, notsure - are you the same notsure that posted on the Support Board for former JWs?
Peter
*****posted by "venice" from h2o*****.
would you believe it if someone told you that the december 1, 2000 issue of the watchtower gives its readers permission to reject the published conclusions of the organization if these should in any way contradict god, ignore his word, and violate common sense?
you decide.
Waiting:
Ditto with the new blood doctrine that leaves it up to the individual.
gather round my children for your educational seminar.. why do you think there are 190 forum members, but only 6 or 7 post?.
sites like this are most useful to us to determine the number and strength of the so-called reform movement.. once identified, most receive loving direction and no longer post.
many who remain are typical born-again posers, witnesses who left years ago, or individuals assigned by us to stimulate conversation.. (note how the composite simon posts when things are slow.
Oh, boy.
I feel like a character in the Twilight Zone.
I was checking out old posts and came across this one. I wish I didn't, but now feel somewhat obliged to respond.
Hal, tell me you are joking. Please. Don't tell me this is a serious comment.
Peter
this site also contains articles by ken raines, who seems to have developed the site.. url http://www.premier1.net/~raines/.
url http://www.premier1.net/~raines/story.html (ken raines).
url http://www.premier1.net/~raines/papers.html (j. bergman).
I have to agree with some of the others who posted about the tone of Bergman's articles. I, too, detect more than a hint of bias. That's just fine if you are simply a disgruntled ex-JW.
On the other hand, if you are trying to present your ideas as research to help others make a decision, and if you add your professional credentials to the story, you should try to maintain your objectivity. If you do not, you lose credibility.
I think a good example of someone who comes across as unbiased, or at least fair, is Ray Franz. I found his book to be interesting and fair. His tone was not heavy handed.
If someone asked me what source to research for information on JWs, I would without hesitation point to Ray's book and not Jerry's research.
i found this interesting comment in the second last post of a 1975 thread by person calling himself "trekkie".. in our association, peer pressure is almost always a result of the society's teaching.
any peer pressure that the f&ds does not approve of will quickly be addressed in our publications and stopped.
equally, any peer pressure that continues for some time has at least the tacit approval of the society.. .
The WTBS is often the "unseen hand" in a lot of things. Something will be said at a convention, or implied in CO's talk that supposedly came directly from the Society.
Pretty soon it will become Gospel as if it was handed down by JC himself. If the idea doesn't work out, the WTBS can state that nothing in writing pin the blame on them. The friends are accused of running ahead of Jehovah.
when i was a jw, i thought i knew enough about the religion to try to convince others to join.
in reality, i only knew what other jw's and the wts told me.
i admit to being gullible and naive when at a young age i wasn't sure what i wanted out of life.
Back when I first joined (baptized in '79 but first studied in '76), I did try to research the organization. There wasn't a lot out there. Those were pre-internet days, my friends. The library and encyclopedia had little info on this rather obscure organization. The only book I found was something called "Faith on the March" or something like that. It wasn't published by the WTBS, but it wasn't exactly written by a disinterested observer, either. It was written by a JW and slanted in the favor of the organization.
Once I was deep into the religion, I didn't look into any further. We all know that was forbidden.
I do remember one shock that should have made me wake up. A Bethel Brother invited a few of us down for a visit. He worked in the writing department and showed us the rather extensive library. Normally, the JW tour does not include this room. I was shocked to see so many books by and about other religions. I often wondered how the Watchtower and Awake got quotes from these books, and was told that interested non-JWs simply sent them in. What a surprise to find a stash of "forbidden" books right there at Bethel. It reminded me of "Animal Farm".
Anyway, now that I'm out, I can look at anything I want. The 'net has made a huge amount of information accessible. I am convinced that leaving was the best thing that could have happened. Especially after reading Ray Franz' book, "Crisis of Conscience", I can see this is not God's organization at all.
i stumbled across this website today.
i assumed it was all card carrying jws.
i've been dfed for almost 4 years now and am happy to be out.
I stumbled across this website today. I assumed it was all card carrying JWs. I've been DFed for almost 4 years now and am happy to be out. Anyway, I figured I'd take a peek and find out what you happy JWs were up to.
What a surprise to find it was mostly ex-JWs or, possibly, JWs that were not entirely buying the party line. Where are the loyalists? Does the WTBS forbid them from joining? Of all the participants I've seen so far, the only one who seems to staunchly defend the organization is HAL.
So what's up?
Is HAL really Fred Franz back from the dead? Speaking of which, I heard the new guy, Milton Henschel(?) had died and then heard he was alive. Is it just that no one can tell?
