i'm sure orphancrow will be able to fill in the details for us.. front page news with picture all over the canadian globe and mail newspaper today.. with major double-page spread across the whole of pages 8 and 9 in the newspaper's front section.. globe and mail, tuesday 8 august 2017.. the patient, a 70-year-old man with high-risk prostate cancer, was a jehovah’s witness.. his religion was one of the reasons he decided to undergo surgery at st. joseph’s healthcare in hamilton, home to a robot named da vinci whose steady metal hands can remove a prostate with scant risk of the blood transfusions forbidden by the man’s faith.. on a recent afternoon, the patient laid unconscious on an operating table as surgeon bobby shayegan and his team plunged a camera and three robotically controlled surgical instruments through small incisions in his abdomen.. dr. shayegan settled himself in front of a three-dimensional screen, clasped the two joysticks that controlled the tools inside his patient’s pelvis and proceeded to cut, cauterize and stitch until he freed the man’s prostate, pulling it out through one of the original incisions.. there was next to no blood.. “that was routine,” dr. shayegan said afterward, holding the plum-sized gland that he and the robot had removed together.
...in its first real ruling on a robotic surgery, the expert committee that advises ontario on which new health technologies to pay for said there was no good evidence that robot-assisted radical prostatectomy is any better than conventional open surgery when it comes to controlling cancer or preserving urinary and sexual function.. the panel said the robot’s other benefits – patients have smaller incisions, lose less blood, suffer less pain and leave the hospital sooner – were not significant enough to justify spending, on average, an extra $3,224 a case, a figure that does not include the millions that wealthy benefactors have spent buying the machines for canadian hospitals.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/the-fight-for-robots-in-canadas-operatingrooms/article35897282/.
"Yes, it is a guess." - OC
Of course. I don't have access to the accounts of that Australian hospital!
"And there isn't evidence to back up that guess" - OC
Well there could be depending on how the accounts are handled at that hospital. I do know that over here in the UK costs can be moved around to make it very difficult to get an accurate representation of costs...
i'm sure orphancrow will be able to fill in the details for us.. front page news with picture all over the canadian globe and mail newspaper today.. with major double-page spread across the whole of pages 8 and 9 in the newspaper's front section.. globe and mail, tuesday 8 august 2017.. the patient, a 70-year-old man with high-risk prostate cancer, was a jehovah’s witness.. his religion was one of the reasons he decided to undergo surgery at st. joseph’s healthcare in hamilton, home to a robot named da vinci whose steady metal hands can remove a prostate with scant risk of the blood transfusions forbidden by the man’s faith.. on a recent afternoon, the patient laid unconscious on an operating table as surgeon bobby shayegan and his team plunged a camera and three robotically controlled surgical instruments through small incisions in his abdomen.. dr. shayegan settled himself in front of a three-dimensional screen, clasped the two joysticks that controlled the tools inside his patient’s pelvis and proceeded to cut, cauterize and stitch until he freed the man’s prostate, pulling it out through one of the original incisions.. there was next to no blood.. “that was routine,” dr. shayegan said afterward, holding the plum-sized gland that he and the robot had removed together.
...in its first real ruling on a robotic surgery, the expert committee that advises ontario on which new health technologies to pay for said there was no good evidence that robot-assisted radical prostatectomy is any better than conventional open surgery when it comes to controlling cancer or preserving urinary and sexual function.. the panel said the robot’s other benefits – patients have smaller incisions, lose less blood, suffer less pain and leave the hospital sooner – were not significant enough to justify spending, on average, an extra $3,224 a case, a figure that does not include the millions that wealthy benefactors have spent buying the machines for canadian hospitals.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/the-fight-for-robots-in-canadas-operatingrooms/article35897282/.
OC -
It seems the reason for dissatisfaction with the robotic route has more to do with initially overselling the procedure rather than complications with the actual procedure itself.
http://www.europeanurology.com/article/S0302-2838(08)00764-1/abstract
i'm sure orphancrow will be able to fill in the details for us.. front page news with picture all over the canadian globe and mail newspaper today.. with major double-page spread across the whole of pages 8 and 9 in the newspaper's front section.. globe and mail, tuesday 8 august 2017.. the patient, a 70-year-old man with high-risk prostate cancer, was a jehovah’s witness.. his religion was one of the reasons he decided to undergo surgery at st. joseph’s healthcare in hamilton, home to a robot named da vinci whose steady metal hands can remove a prostate with scant risk of the blood transfusions forbidden by the man’s faith.. on a recent afternoon, the patient laid unconscious on an operating table as surgeon bobby shayegan and his team plunged a camera and three robotically controlled surgical instruments through small incisions in his abdomen.. dr. shayegan settled himself in front of a three-dimensional screen, clasped the two joysticks that controlled the tools inside his patient’s pelvis and proceeded to cut, cauterize and stitch until he freed the man’s prostate, pulling it out through one of the original incisions.. there was next to no blood.. “that was routine,” dr. shayegan said afterward, holding the plum-sized gland that he and the robot had removed together.
...in its first real ruling on a robotic surgery, the expert committee that advises ontario on which new health technologies to pay for said there was no good evidence that robot-assisted radical prostatectomy is any better than conventional open surgery when it comes to controlling cancer or preserving urinary and sexual function.. the panel said the robot’s other benefits – patients have smaller incisions, lose less blood, suffer less pain and leave the hospital sooner – were not significant enough to justify spending, on average, an extra $3,224 a case, a figure that does not include the millions that wealthy benefactors have spent buying the machines for canadian hospitals.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/the-fight-for-robots-in-canadas-operatingrooms/article35897282/.
It seems the evidence is out there but for whatever reason this study focused on only a small sample from 1 country.
However it does seem apparent that robotic surgery does result in less bleeding, less pain and a quicker recovery time than conventional surgery so that in and of itself does give a thumbs up for the robotic route. So if we factor in less ward time, less pain killers and less use of donated blood I am sure the overall saving would outweigh the greater cost of the procedure. I am guessing that the way the health system works is that the costs of the procedure is given over directly to the hospital whereas the cost of medicine, ward care and blood comes from different departments and costs the hospital, directly, less. The way costs are structured often has an impact on what gets offered more so than the real world cost.
win my first post i introduced you to tweedle dee and tweedle dum, ( surprise elders visit ).
well last sunday night i got phone call from t- dum, he informed me that t-dee was listening in, no doubt practicing his short hand.
t-dum went on to say how he was concerned that we were making the biggest mistake of our lives, yada yada.
They only have power over you if you let them and I think you have demonstrated that they have no power over you, and more, if they do try to assert power over you it is they who are going to feel the heat.
I agree with the other poster who pointed out that attacking in their place of work isn't a good idea, but that said, you did and it has sent out a very powerful message...
i thought i'd done a thread on this before but can't find it.. so.
did jesus actually exist?.
without using the bible i'd like to see obvious proof..
"Since our modern calendar is based upon a fictional event, maybe all other events are also fictional." - Fishface
Errr.... Over to you Spock....
i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.
there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.
there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.
If evolutionary theory were constructed only on similarities and differences of extant organisms then Hooberus would be correct in pointing out that this isn't enough.
I Goggled "different lines of evidence for evolution" to see what would come up and quite a lot of interesting things did come up.
It is always important to take in to account all the evidence that points to evolution because focusing on just 1 line and then making an assumption about a conclusion based on far more lines of evidence will lead to misunderstandings.
i mailed the below letter to my mother a few weeks ago.
i did share it on the ex-jw facebook group but thought i'd post it here.. basically, she's shunned me since day 1, has little or nothing to do with my 3yo daughter and told my sister "i hope <my daughter> becomes a jw when she's older so i can welcome her into the family".
well, that was the last straw for me..
"I’m so much happier now, I have Erin and I have freedom. And there’s no reason in the world why I would ever have to shun her. And even if there was I still wouldn’t. You see, I love Erin. More than the idea of living forever, more than god (even if he did exist). I would happily die in Armageddon just to see her. That, to me, I real love and I do love her and she knows. Why would I want to live forever without her?"
This strongly emphasises what is wrong with the witnesses. They have been brainwashed to such an extent that they can no longer love. I'm sure they would disagree, but when met with the logic of the above statement it should be obvious, even to them, that something had gone very wrong in their heads.
if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.
just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.
it would be good to show that this is not the case..
TS - You need to define improvement. Evolution isn't about improvement, it's about adaptation to the environment so an individual is more likely to reproduce; or to put it another way the individual that is better adapted to the environment it is in is more likely to successfully have offspring.
Consider sickle cell anaemia, it is a debilitating disease. Would you call that an improvement? Well, in areas with high levels of Malaria infection it is because it infers an advantage to the individual of those 'healthy' individuals compared to those who do not have this disease. In that instance the infected individual is more likely to reach maturity and pass on their 'infected' genes than those healthy individuals that catch Malaria. In areas where Malaria is rare or non-existent this disease gives no benefit at all...
Yes, you need to think about your use of the word improvement at the very least.
i thought this would be a good time to pose some questions based on the series so far.. if creationism is true these should be easy.
answers that don't involve copy-paste would be really interesting to read.. ... .
1. since some proteins can be assembled in more ways than there are atoms in the universe why do the sequences of amino acids and bases vary between species in exactly the way evolution predicts?
JW creationists answer most answers with "How do you know" and keep repeating that until the opponent gets to something they don't know whereupon they are the victors, Praise Jah!
i thought this would be a good time to pose some questions based on the series so far.. if creationism is true these should be easy.
answers that don't involve copy-paste would be really interesting to read.. ... .
1. since some proteins can be assembled in more ways than there are atoms in the universe why do the sequences of amino acids and bases vary between species in exactly the way evolution predicts?
"nor does it "discredit" him" - hooberus
Well if Tas quite clearly talks nonsense in the latter piece (and he does) then yes it does discredit him.
