Posts by deegee

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

deegee

******CORRECTION TO MY LAST COMMENT:

"This is the sort of cosmogony that the ancient Babylonians had
https://gilgamesh42.wordpress.com/?s=pillar&submit=Search. "

The correct website is:

https://gilgamesh42.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/creationism-and-evolution-on-trial-the-10000-challenge/.

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

deegee

Thanks for your response to my OP David_Jay.

Though I'm not sure if my questions were answered.... ....at least not directly.

I'm wondering if the Jews back in the day would have given the same explanations which you and other contemporary Jews give regarding the OT scriptures? It seems to me that Judaism is in a constant state of evolution, reinterpretation and rationalization IN HIND SIGHT.

I'm wondering why God didn't instruct the OT Bible writers to just write what really happened instead of having them write accounts which are just exaggerations and not literal.

I can't imagine, for example, that back in the day when scientific knowledge was limited, that what the OT writers wrote regarding science and cosmology was not taken to be literal:

There are several statements in the OT that are not accurate and authentic to this day, eg.

- the earth is described as flat (Isaiah 11:12; Job 38:13; Jeremiah 16:19; Daniel 4:11; Matthew 4:8; Revelation 7:1),

- the earth is described as stationary (Psalms 93:1; 104:5; 96:10);

- the earth has a foundation and is resting on/held up by pillars - i.e., the earth is fixed:
1Samuel 2:8, Job 38:4, Proverbs 8:29, Micah 6:2, Jeremiah 31:37, Job 26:11; Psalm 104:3

- the earth is covered by a vault (dome) in which is fixed the stars and windows to let down rain (Genesis 7:11).

- the sun moves back and forth across the sky Ecclesiastes 1:5, (and can be stopped if necessary - Joshua's battle at Jericho)

- that the moon is a source of light,

- that daylight does not emanate from the sun itself,

- that the boundaries of the oceans are fixed ( think beach erosion),

- that water in the sky is suspended above a giant curtain (firmament),

- Genesis implies a flat earth with a sky dome holding back the waters of heaven, while windows are in place there to let rain in, while the land itself and the sky dome are held up by pillars. This is the sort of cosmogony that the ancient Babylonians had
https://gilgamesh42.wordpress.com/?s=pillar&submit=Search

- Biblical cosmology portrays a three tier universe (the heavens, earth, and the underworld).

- There are two contradictory stories of the Creation of the earth and the heavens in the book of Genesis, written either by different authors or an author drawing on different sources. In chapter 2:4-24, which is probably the oldest version of the story:
* creation takes place in the space of one day,
* man was made before any plants and animals
* and woman was made later after animals failed as suitable companions/helpers for man.

However, in chapter 1:
* creation occurs over six days,
* with plants, fish, birds, and animals created before man and woman,
* who were created at the same time,
* the plants were created before the sun - how did plants survive without sunlight?

Archaeology indicates an older age for mankind than that indicated by the account of Adam & Eve.
Archaeology has proven that death existed before Adam & Eve.

- Isaiah 11: The wolf and lamb lying down together, the predator and prey system abolished. “They will not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain”.

Can wolves, leopards and lambs actually dwell/lie down together?
Or if the calf and the young lion and the fatling can actually dwell/lie down together?
Can a little child safely lead wolves, leopards, and young lions?
Can wolves and lambs actually feed together, and lions eat straw like the bullock? Can carnivores become herbivores?

Imagine the scenario if all the carnivores/predators are transformed to herbivores and there is no more food chain: death would only be as a result of aging. With no more food chain, there would now be the potential risk of an out-of-control animal population.

I can't imagine that the foregoing writings weren't taken to be literal back in the day but in light of modern scientific evidence and proven knowledge the Jews have changed their viewpoint to conform to scientific reality and decided that these writings were not literal, but this no doubt results in distorting the original language and meaning.

Regards.

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

deegee

David_Jay:
I will add more over the following week, and should have everything answered by Friday, December 2.

I'm looking forward to it.

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

I imagine it would have been a rather immersive experience Vidiot..............Noah had so much more of his giant wife to love..........'love handles' and all.

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

deegee

Hello David_Jay,

I note your comments in the following threads regarding the Jewish perspective on certain Old Testament (OT) events:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush

Would love to hear from you regarding the following:

1. What is the origin/source of the OT scriptures? Were any of the OT scriptures communicated to the Israelites by God? If so, which ones?

2. Did God appear to Moses?

3. Did God appear to any other person, spoke to them, telling them to form the Israelite/Jewish religion?

4. Are the Jews/Israelites God's chosen people?

5. Was there a literal Exodus from Egypt to the promised land? If so, how many persons were involved?

6. Is there any part of the OT that should be taken literally? If so:

- Can you specifically state which parts?

- How do you know that these OT scriptures are to be taken literally and not figuratively? What criteria do you use to determine this?

7. Are there any Jewish scriptures outside of the OT which were communicated directly by God to the Jews/Israelites? If so:

- What are these scriptures?

- How do you know that these scriptures were communicated to the Jews/Israelites by God?

- To whom among the Jews/Israelites did God communicate these scriptures?

Thanks.

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

David_Jay,

Further to your foregoing comments regarding the Jewish perspective:

So,
1. Did God appear to Moses?

2. Are the Jews/Israelites God's chosen people?

3. Is there any part of the OT that should be taken literally? If so, can you specifically state which parts?

Thanks.

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

LOL Vidiot..........Noah and his giant wife probably slept in separate beds just in case she should crush him............but I imagine they had lots of fun in the sac while they were awake.........

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

LOL OUTLAW........A picture, er no, a meme is more than a thousand words.

ROFLMAO.

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

Thanks for your comment David_Jay.

It is certainly an interesting Jewish perspective.

I don't mean to be offensive, but am wondering, given your explanation above, why has there been this ongoing land grab in the "Promised Land" since 1948 and attendant/associated death of the native Palestinians if the "Promised Land" story is just a parable or liturgy, which should not be taken literally as you claim?

It seems to me that God needs to remind the Jewish people that they should not be taking the "Promised Land" story literally given that it's all just parable and liturgy as you have stated, so that the land grab and associated deaths will cease and some measure of peace returned to the Middle East.

Regards.

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the Canaanites could have been avoided?

Why didn't God also invite the native Palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the Israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?

Instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances. What followed was a series of terrible, bloody battles in which tens of thousands of people died violently. Finally, God pronounced his campaign of genocide a success (Joshua 11:15).