Posts by deegee

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

deegee

Hello David_Jay,

I note your comments in the following threads regarding the Jewish perspective on certain Old Testament (OT) events:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush

Would love to hear from you regarding the following:

1. What is the origin/source of the OT scriptures? Were any of the OT scriptures communicated to the Israelites by God? If so, which ones?

2. Did God appear to Moses?

3. Did God appear to any other person, spoke to them, telling them to form the Israelite/Jewish religion?

4. Are the Jews/Israelites God's chosen people?

5. Was there a literal Exodus from Egypt to the promised land? If so, how many persons were involved?

6. Is there any part of the OT that should be taken literally? If so:

- Can you specifically state which parts?

- How do you know that these OT scriptures are to be taken literally and not figuratively? What criteria do you use to determine this?

7. Are there any Jewish scriptures outside of the OT which were communicated directly by God to the Jews/Israelites? If so:

- What are these scriptures?

- How do you know that these scriptures were communicated to the Jews/Israelites by God?

- To whom among the Jews/Israelites did God communicate these scriptures?

Thanks.

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

David_Jay,

Further to your foregoing comments regarding the Jewish perspective:

So,
1. Did God appear to Moses?

2. Are the Jews/Israelites God's chosen people?

3. Is there any part of the OT that should be taken literally? If so, can you specifically state which parts?

Thanks.

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

LOL Vidiot..........Noah and his giant wife probably slept in separate beds just in case she should crush him............but I imagine they had lots of fun in the sac while they were awake.........

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

LOL OUTLAW........A picture, er no, a meme is more than a thousand words.

ROFLMAO.

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

Thanks for your comment David_Jay.

It is certainly an interesting Jewish perspective.

I don't mean to be offensive, but am wondering, given your explanation above, why has there been this ongoing land grab in the "Promised Land" since 1948 and attendant/associated death of the native Palestinians if the "Promised Land" story is just a parable or liturgy, which should not be taken literally as you claim?

It seems to me that God needs to remind the Jewish people that they should not be taking the "Promised Land" story literally given that it's all just parable and liturgy as you have stated, so that the land grab and associated deaths will cease and some measure of peace returned to the Middle East.

Regards.

34

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush?

by deegee in

why didn't god also reveal himself to the canaanites just as he did to moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the canaanites could have been avoided?.

why didn't god also invite the native palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?.

instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances.

deegee

Why didn't God also reveal himself to the Canaanites just as he did to Moses in the burning bush so that the massacre/genocide of the Canaanites could have been avoided?

Why didn't God also invite the native Palestinians into his covenant, giving them the same laws he gave the Israelites, and establish an egalitarian society where people of all races could live together in harmony?

Instead, he ordered his people to invade and slaughter the natives, killing them to the last man, woman and child, specifically instructing them to show no mercy to anyone under any circumstances. What followed was a series of terrible, bloody battles in which tens of thousands of people died violently. Finally, God pronounced his campaign of genocide a success (Joshua 11:15).

9

Why blame the Watchtower?

by deegee in

if god has a relationship with every christian and every christian is praying to him then wouldn't he tell every christian the same thing so that christians would agree on matters of doctrine and practice?.

it is certainly puzzling why sincere and devout people equally seek god's will and pray to him yet they all come up with different answers so that there are approximately 40,000 different christian denominations (center for the study of global christianity (csgc) at gordon-conwell theological seminary).. before his death, jesus called for agreement among his followers rather than division (john 17:20-21).

he declared that he would send the holy spirit to guide persons into all the truth (john 14:16 - 17, 26, john 15:26, john 16:7,13 - 15).. so shouldn't anyone who has a relationship with jesus, reads the bible, and listens to the holy spirit come to the same conclusions as others who are doing the same thing?.

deegee

If God has a relationship with every Christian and every Christian is praying to him then wouldn't he tell every Christian the same thing so that Christians would agree on matters of doctrine and practice?

It is certainly puzzling why sincere and devout people equally seek God's will and pray to him yet they all come up with different answers so that there are approximately 40,000 different Christian denominations (Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary).

Before his death, Jesus called for agreement among his followers rather than division (John 17:20-21). He declared that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide persons into all the truth (John 14:16 - 17, 26, John 15:26, John 16:7,13 - 15).

So shouldn't anyone who has a relationship with Jesus, reads the Bible, and listens to the Holy Spirit come to the same conclusions as others who are doing the same thing?

Isn't Jesus and the Holy Spirit capable of communicating the same ideas, beliefs, and practices to all of his followers so that sincere and devout Christians would all agree on what Jesus is telling them?

It seems to me that if Jesus and the Holy Spirit were capable of communicating the same ideas, beliefs, and practices to all of his followers then the Christianity we would see would look very different from the Christianity we see today, with all of its division and disagreement.

I can only conclude that Jesus tells different people different things, but then why would Jesus contradict himself? Why would Jesus tell some people one thing and others something else?

26

Was it Adam who altered his own DNA so that sicknesses & consequent death would be passed on to his offspring?

by deegee in

the blame for mankind's sicknesses/diseases and consequent death has been placed squarely on the shoulders of adam:.

romans 5:12, 17 - 19:"therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—for if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man.......consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people........for just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners........".

1 corinthians 15: 21, 22:"for since death came through a man........... for as in adam all die.......".

deegee

When a person commits suicide, what is the proximate cause of death, the instrument, the person, or God who made the person mortal?

Interesting question Fisherman.

It seems the underlying causes of suicide are either mental health issues or terminal (physical) illness.

According to researchers, suicide in most cases involves an underlying mental health condition.
For example, researchers have found that if someone close to an adolescent dies by suicide, the adolescent’s mental health history is a bigger predictor of future suicidal behavior than his or her relationship to the suicide victim:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/colorado-springs-teens-keep-killing-themselves/ar-AAj9RXy?li=AAggNb9

http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567(09)60217-3/abstract

Mental health issues usually arise from a chemical imbalance in the brain.

Some choose doctor assisted suicide to end their lives when they are terminally ill:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/wellness/first-child-dies-by-euthanasia-with-parent%E2%80%99s-approval/ar-BBwlvwn

There is also the ongoing debate whether the mentally ill should also be allowed the option of doctor assisted suicide:
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/my-life-is-a-nightmare-windsor-man-27-wants-legally-assisted-death/ar-AAjH8Oc?li=AAggNb9

I think it is safe to say that the underlying causes of suicide - mental health issues or terminal illness - stem from defects in the human mind and body.

26

Was it Adam who altered his own DNA so that sicknesses & consequent death would be passed on to his offspring?

by deegee in

the blame for mankind's sicknesses/diseases and consequent death has been placed squarely on the shoulders of adam:.

romans 5:12, 17 - 19:"therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—for if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man.......consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people........for just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners........".

1 corinthians 15: 21, 22:"for since death came through a man........... for as in adam all die.......".

deegee

I heard from an older jw that the idea was once that Adam and Eve would have eventually had to eat from the Tree of Life or die. The WTS also says that the difference between humans on earth living forever required support from God, water, air, food, etc, and the anointed in heaven and Jesus, spirit creatures that did not need support to live from God, that their life was within themselves............

Thanks for bringing this up Blondie.

If Adam & Eve needed to eat from the tree of life in order to live, then it means that they were never created with an inherent ability to live forever, they were created detective, to die, to be prone to disease and consequent death. The default position was death and a defective body prone to diseases, so whether or not Adam & Eve sinned they were going to die anyway. This contradicts the WT's position that everything God created was good:

Genesis 1:31: "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good".
1Timothy 4:4:
"For everything God created is good........"

Whether:

1. God created Adam (& Eve) with a perfect body then altered his DNA (my statement above),

OR

2. Adam (& Eve) did not have the inherent ability to live forever as they needed to eat from the tree of life in order to live forever. And so Adam (& Eve) was never created with a perfect body in the first place. God created Adam (& Eve) with a defective body prone to diseases and death.

in both cases, wouldn't it be God who is responsible for sickness and consequent death in the world?

Point 2. brings me to another point: Jesus ransom sacrifice was meaningless if Adam did not lose a perfect body.

31

1000 Years is Like 1 Day?

by Sorry in

anyone else hear about this.

as all j-dubs know, whenever someone complains about how long the "new system" is taking too arrive, they use the excuse that jehovah works on his own time.

quite a few times during the public talks, i've heard speakers say the phrase "1000 years to us is only one day to jehovah" (my parents never stop talking about this).

deegee

BTW, according to the WT "day" has several meanings:
- 1 day
- 77.14 days
- 360 days
- 1 year
- 1,000 years
- 7,000 years

http://smmcroberts.net/blog/its-about-time/