Posts by deegee

37

I will only believe in demons if...

by deegee in

jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

deegee

Fair enough, point taken.

37

I will only believe in demons if...

by deegee in

jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

deegee

David_Jay,

I just thought that I would include the info regarding the neurological and psychological processes involved in a séance given that although your comment acknowledged these non-supernatural explanations, you also hinted that it could be otherwise:

Again this may not have been the cause of the alleged possession, but the family was not religious at the time of the so-called events........

37

I will only believe in demons if...

by deegee in

jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

deegee

David_Jay,

About séances, trances & altered state of consciousness cont'd:

The research indicates that information enters our brains minutely, hourly, daily at the conscious and unconscious level. Some of the unconscious information never makes its way to the conscious mind for active processing but remains in our subconscious - hypnosis has proven to be an effective method in accessing/uncovering information buried in a person's subconscious.

There is always background activity taking place in our brains when we are awake and asleep and there is also a constant interplay between the conscious and subconscious mind - some information from the unconscious mind makes its way to the conscious mind for active processing and vice versa - issues from the conscious mind can get pushed out of consciousness into the unconscious mind.

Our minds are never perfectly still. There is always subtle processing going on in which we can't consciously identify the thoughts in terms of clear words or clear images. There are rapid and fleeting associations taking place in the subconscious mind. Subtle processing or preconscious or subconscious processing gives rise to conscious self-talking and imaging, but as I have already stated, not all unconscious information makes its way to the conscious mind for active processing some remains in our subconscious and can be accessed/uncovered by methods like hypnosis.

Psychologists, neuroscientists etc. have observed that there are certain intense practices which can alter a person's mind or state of consciousness to the point where, the person descends to deeper levels of his/her consciousness and releases from the deep mind, thoughts, impressions, visions, images, voices, words, etc.

This altered state of consciousness involves a transition from the left brain to the right brain wherein the rational left brain is suppressed and quieted and the perceptive faculties of the intuitive right brain are awakened and the person transcends to the unknown, inner world of their subconscious mind.

This opens the way to the unlocking of a deep level of consciousness where psychic and extrasensory perception can be done and so some persons may become psychic or clairvoyant being able to forsee the future when in fact it is thoughts, impressions, images, visions, voices, words etc emerging from the deep, intuitive levels of the right brain as their own subconscious mind begins to "speak" to them. New insights well up directly from the fluid matrix of the subconscious and the subtle processing taking place there, without having to be first processed at the conscious level. Some persons become psychotic or hallucinatory or some persons become both psychic/clairvoyant and psychotic/hallucinatory.

Psychologists, neuroscientists etc. have observed that in some persons, intense spiritual practices like intense/strong/deep praying, meditation, fasting etc. result in a self-induced altered state of consciousness and attendant suppression of the rational left brain with the unleashing of the subconscious as I have described.

37

I will only believe in demons if...

by deegee in

jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

deegee

David_Jay,

About séances:

So based on what I have read, a séance is a meeting at which people attempt to make contact with the dead, especially through the agency of a medium.

The medium and/or others enter into a trance, an altered state of consciousness, using methods such as:
- meditation
- self-hypnosis

to induce an altered state of consciousness similar to persons having a mystical experience.

The seance is characterized by trances, the medium channelling information from the "spirits of the dead" whom he/she has contacted who speak through him/her, or through automatic writing in a native or different language, slate writing, artwork, glossolalia (speaking in tongues) etc - all of which are a means of communicating with "spirits".

There may also be physical changes in the appearances of the medium and/or other participants while they are in the trance/altered state of consciousness state.

Researchers/neuroscientists, have examined brain activity during trances/altered state of consciousness (ASC) experiences.

When a person enters an ASC part of their brain is shut down and another part of the brain takes over:

"Channeling Spirits Shuts Down Parts Of Brain"
http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/spirituality-brain-function-mediums-121116.htm:

I will only believe in demons if...

by deegee in

jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

deegee

David_Jay:

........the boy's problems did begin after his aunt, who was a spiritualist, introduced Roland to seances. The boy, fascinated by what looked like play, began imitating rituals practiced by his aunt when alone. The aunt supplied Roland with a talking board for this very purpose.

What exactly was done by the boy during those séance rituals? Please give a breakdown of the steps involved and the details of what exactly was done by the boy when he engaged in a séance ritual.

37

I will only believe in demons if...

by deegee in

jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

deegee

David/Jay:

Sometimes it means the priest must turn away the "possessed" subject to doctors, and sometimes the doctor must turn away the patient to a priest. We are talking not hypotheticals but of desperate situations where lives hang in the balance. Sometimes you have to take a step into something you neither believe in or understand to save a life.

One therapist documented in the following article, the likely reasons why psychological/psychiatric interventions fail when people have the psychiatric/psychological conditions mentioned in the OP:

http://www.somer.co.il/articles/1997Paranoarmal.dissoc.pdf:

Paranormal and dissociative experiences in Middle-Eastern Jews in Israel: diagnostic and treatment dilemmas by Eli Somer

(perhaps a fitting article given that you are also a Jew

)

According to the author:

God and spirits are thought to exert various influences on individuals in various cultures.
Therefore, instead of offering personal, intrapsychic explanations for one's distress - that is, explanations based on the INTERNAL psychological processes of the individual - people often tend to provide religious, social and cultural explanations for their experiences.

So some persons afflicted with the various conditions in the OP are not construing them as intrapsychic - that is, based on their INTERNAL psychological processes - but rather they perceive their condition as manifestations of external spiritist agents.

When patients construe their suffering in cultural idioms implicating supernatural experiences, some patients refuse to accept any of their possession-like experiences as possible manifestations of their own dissociated ego-states. It then becomes a struggle for doctors/mental health practitioners to find common ground on which significant help can be offered to such patients who are manifesting dissociative and other symptomatology.

Spirit possession is a universal phenomenon which is culturally shaped. Some patients perceive their illnesses through a cultural perspective rather than as manifestations of their own internal psychological processes. They believe in the spiritual essence of their condition and so use spiritist folklore-based idioms in their attempts to express and explain their suffering. They therefore may not see their distressing and unrelenting problems as a mental health matter. Some patients may feel that a culture-bound conceptual framework might better explain their pain/affliction/malady than a psychiatric one.

The idiom of spirits and possession are culturally constituted. This articulation might be used by some patients because of the relief these cultural constructions can offer to their protagonists. Such patients interpret all of their symptoms within this paradigm rendering them completely untreatable within an intrapsychic/clinical conceptual model.

They reject any information or interpretation of their symptoms as otherwise plausible, irrelevant to their own particular case. Their symptoms are framed in concepts that preclude any meaningful psychotherapeutic interventions. They are not willing to accept medical explanations for their conditions/afflictions. The conceptual framework for understanding their affliction is incompatible with conventional psychotherapeutic principles. This is the dilemma faced by both patient and therapist, the latter may find it difficult to bridge the cultural perspective gap when attempting to treat the patient.

37

I will only believe in demons if...

by deegee in

jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

deegee

Interesting info regarding the exorcism practice/rite David_Jay.

However, I would be grateful if you could explain in detail:

- How do demons get inside a person's brain or body in the first place? How exactly does this happen?

- Is there an objective way to test for or distinguish between demon possession and the various psychological, psychiatric, biological and physiological conditions mentioned in the OP?

37

I will only believe in demons if...

by deegee in

jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

deegee

JWs are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.

This obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that Jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century CE Judea and Galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.

Exorcism formed a large part of Jesus' ministry on earth. The Gospels and the book of Acts describe many exorcisms where Jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.

___

But how do demons get inside a person's brain or body? Can someone please explain how this happens?

I used to uphold the JW view of demons when a JW but now will only believe in demons if there is an objective way to test for or distinguish between demons and the following possibilities:

- some form of dissociation (dissociation/dissociative disorder)

- multiple personalities (multiple personality disorder)

- a fugue state

- uncontrolled emotional reactions

- epilepsy

- seizure-like responses

- panic-like responses

- psychosis (a spectrum disorder)

- schizophrenia (a spectrum disorder)

- the unconscious dynamics of the brain;

altered/trance-like state of consciousness experiences arising from deep/intense/strong contemplative meditation or other intensive spiritual practices such as deep/intense/strong praying and fasting, in which the rational left brain is suppressed and quieted and the perceptive faculties of the intuitive right brain are awakened, unleashing thoughts, images, impressions, visions, voices, words, from the depths of the subconscious in the process. These thoughts, impressions, images, visions, voices, words etc emerge from the deep, intuitive levels of the right brain as the subconscious mind begins to "speak" to the person who is in an altered/trance-like state of consciousness.

etc.

I am all ears if someone can come up with an objective way to test for or distinguish between demons and these various conditions.

50

Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible

by Simon in

jws like to think they have found the one true religion.

but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?

not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?

deegee

Cold Steel,

Your responses show just why it's not possible to find the one true religion per the OP.

To begin with, the Bible does not present only one theological point of view. Then on top of that, people add their various interpretations and reinterpretations, hence the approximately 40,000 different Christian denominations (Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary).

50

Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible

by Simon in

jws like to think they have found the one true religion.

but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?

not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?

deegee

It's not possible to find the one true religion because the Bible does not present only one theological point of view.

For example, on the matter of the Trinity, there are passages in the New Testament which clearly indicate that Jesus is God. There are other passages however, in which it is quite clear that Jesus is not God.

The Bible states the soul lives on after death but it also says that the soul dies.

etc. etc.