deegee

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Posts by deegee

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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  deegee

  John_Mann,

  It was not Christianity the cause of your deception.

  Why don't the traditional Protestants believe what the Catholics believe?

  Maybe because the Protestants were deceived by the Catholics?
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  102

  Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

  by kpop in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

  after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

  " shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

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  deegee

  Perry,

  According to you, your mother's soul lives on after she died, so, have you heard from your mother since she died?

  Please let us know if you do.

  Please be sure to ask your Mom about her conversations with God and what he told her.
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  102

  Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

  by kpop in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

  after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

  " shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

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  deegee

  Perry,

  According to the WT ​February 2017 par.12, p.26 - "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible."

  So the GB has admitted that God/the Holy Spirit does not speak to /communicate with them. Yet you claim that the Holy Spirit spoke to you/communicated with you belatedly regarding your mother's death.

  So the Holy Spirit contacts you but not the GB?

  Why would the Holy Spirit contact/speak to/communicate with you but not the GB?

  Isn't the GB equally seeking God's will and praying to him, so why isn't God answering them, communicating with them, speaking with them, contacting them?

  Also, didn't Jesus promise that he would send the Holy Spirit, the helper, to teach, remind, guide etc persons into all the truth?

  John 14:16 - 17, 26:
  "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth............But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

  John 15:26:
  “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me."

  John 16:7,13 - 15:
  "But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
  But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you."

  Apparently the GB is way, way down on Jesus' and the Holy Spirit's list?
• 
  102

  Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

  by kpop in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

  after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

  " shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

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• 

  deegee

  Perry,

  BTW,
  

  My mother recently died......my father and elder brothers didn't even call me while she was in hospice......When I found out a month later, by only the sheer power of the Holy Spirit......

  
  

  Does this mean that the Holy Spirit actually spoke to /communicated with you?
  
• 
  102

  Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

  by kpop in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

  after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

  " shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

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  deegee

  Hello Perry,

  Condolences on the passing of your mother. I do not wish to sound insensitive to your loss but must ask:

  What function(s) was your mother's soul responsible for during her lifetime versus during her end of life experience?

  Where was your mother's soul hiding? Area after area of the brain has yielded up its secrets to the probing of neuroscience, and not a trace of the soul has been found.

  Can you definitively prove that:

  - your mother's brain, though eaten up with cancer, Alzheimer's etc was not the source of her behaviour during her final hours?

  - whatever behaviour your mother experienced during her final hours was taking place separately from her brain?

  What if your mother was not dying from Alzheimer's, brain tumor etc but was dying from something else that did not impact her brain and yet her end of life behaviour was nevertheless the same, and she screamed the same words: "I don't want to die" and yelled out other fears shortly before her death?

  Would you also conclude that this behaviour was taking place separately from her brain?
• 
  37

  I will only believe in demons if...

  by deegee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

  the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

  but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

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  deegee

  So Jesus warned:

  Matthew 12:43 - 45:

  " “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.” "

  But then God subsequently cleansed the heavens to protect his spiritual family by sending the demons down to the earth (Revelation 12:7-12). Now his physical family has to fight them.

  It was important for God to get rid of these pesky demons from heaven but then he gave them to mankind to deal with and we now have to fight them. WT#!

  Maybe Jesus needs to have a word with God about this............didn't God know that the demons will infiltrate our minds when they are blank, before he did this?
  
• 
  37

  I will only believe in demons if...

  by deegee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

  the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

  but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

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  deegee

  Fair enough, point taken.
• 
  37

  I will only believe in demons if...

  by deegee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

  the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

  but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  deegee

  David_Jay,

  I just thought that I would include the info regarding the neurological and psychological processes involved in a séance given that although your comment acknowledged these non-supernatural explanations, you also hinted that it could be otherwise:

  Again this may not have been the cause of the alleged possession, but the family was not religious at the time of the so-called events........
• 
  37

  I will only believe in demons if...

  by deegee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

  the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

  but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  deegee

  David_Jay,

  About séances, trances & altered state of consciousness cont'd:

  The research indicates that information enters our brains minutely, hourly, daily at the conscious and unconscious level. Some of the unconscious information never makes its way to the conscious mind for active processing but remains in our subconscious - hypnosis has proven to be an effective method in accessing/uncovering information buried in a person's subconscious.
  

  There is always background activity taking place in our brains when we are awake and asleep and there is also a constant interplay between the conscious and subconscious mind - some information from the unconscious mind makes its way to the conscious mind for active processing and vice versa - issues from the conscious mind can get pushed out of consciousness into the unconscious mind.
  

  Our minds are never perfectly still. There is always subtle processing going on in which we can't consciously identify the thoughts in terms of clear words or clear images. There are rapid and fleeting associations taking place in the subconscious mind. Subtle processing or preconscious or subconscious processing gives rise to conscious self-talking and imaging, but as I have already stated, not all unconscious information makes its way to the conscious mind for active processing some remains in our subconscious and can be accessed/uncovered by methods like hypnosis.
  

  Psychologists, neuroscientists etc. have observed that there are certain intense practices which can alter a person's mind or state of consciousness to the point where, the person descends to deeper levels of his/her consciousness and releases from the deep mind, thoughts, impressions, visions, images, voices, words, etc.
  

  This altered state of consciousness involves a transition from the left brain to the right brain wherein the rational left brain is suppressed and quieted and the perceptive faculties of the intuitive right brain are awakened and the person transcends to the unknown, inner world of their subconscious mind.
  

  This opens the way to the unlocking of a deep level of consciousness where psychic and extrasensory perception can be done and so some persons may become psychic or clairvoyant being able to forsee the future when in fact it is thoughts, impressions, images, visions, voices, words etc emerging from the deep, intuitive levels of the right brain as their own subconscious mind begins to "speak" to them. New insights well up directly from the fluid matrix of the subconscious and the subtle processing taking place there, without having to be first processed at the conscious level. Some persons become psychotic or hallucinatory or some persons become both psychic/clairvoyant and psychotic/hallucinatory.
  

  Psychologists, neuroscientists etc. have observed that in some persons, intense spiritual practices like intense/strong/deep praying, meditation, fasting etc. result in a self-induced altered state of consciousness and attendant suppression of the rational left brain with the unleashing of the subconscious as I have described.
  
• 
  37

  I will only believe in demons if...

  by deegee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

  the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

  but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  deegee

  David_Jay,

  About séances:

  So based on what I have read, a séance is a meeting at which people attempt to make contact with the dead, especially through the agency of a medium.

  The medium and/or others enter into a trance, an altered state of consciousness, using methods such as:
  - meditation
  - self-hypnosis

  to induce an altered state of consciousness similar to persons having a mystical experience.

  The seance is characterized by trances, the medium channelling information from the "spirits of the dead" whom he/she has contacted who speak through him/her, or through automatic writing in a native or different language, slate writing, artwork, glossolalia (speaking in tongues) etc - all of which are a means of communicating with "spirits".

  There may also be physical changes in the appearances of the medium and/or other participants while they are in the trance/altered state of consciousness state.

  Researchers/neuroscientists, have examined brain activity during trances/altered state of consciousness (ASC) experiences.

  When a person enters an ASC part of their brain is shut down and another part of the brain takes over:

  "Channeling Spirits Shuts Down Parts Of Brain"
  http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/spirituality-brain-function-mediums-121116.htm:

  See also:
  http://www.andrewnewberg.com

  This neuroscientist has also researched and written much about the neurological basis for altered state of consciousness experiences, religious and spiritual experiences and indicates that these experiences are dramatically influenced by changes in brain activity.