Posts by deegee

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"At this moment is only give the sanctifying grace (to overcome mortal sins)."

"Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person."

"There's no clear plan for the planet earth. But it will be transformed at the Last Judgment. At that time everything will change."

Are you saying that God rather remove the GUILT for something which we did not do instead of its CONSEQUENCES, leaving us to continue experiencing evil and suffering?

'I will remove the GUILT but not the CONSEQUENCES' - is that what God is doing?

Why would a loving God not want to bring the object of his love (humans) relief from suffering and evil as a result of Adamic sin, AT THE SAME TIME that he removes the GUILT for this original sin?

Why remove just the GUILT and not the CONSEQUENCES SIMULTANEOUSLY?

"It was revealed to the angels the humankind will fall and God himself would become a human. This implied angels to worship the human nature in God."

So God went through the process of becoming a human when Adam & Eve sinned just so that he could subsequently die to remove the GUILT of Adamic sin but not the CONSEQUENCES of Adamic sin?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"The vision I had was extremely convincing to me and not anyone else.
Source: God.
Delivery: an angel."

1. So why did you initially deny that your vision was from God?

2. How do you know that your vision is not convincing to anyone else?
Have you told anyone else about the specific details/ specific content of your vision?

You refused to provide the specific details/ specific content of your vision when someone from this forum asked you to share that information.

3. What about your vision makes you certain that it was from God via an angel?
How were you able to tell that your vision was from God via an angel?

4. "There's about 4 views in CC about the crucifixion of Christ."

If God can give you a vision, then why doesn't God speak to the Catholic Church and tell them which is the correct view? Why has God left the CC floundering and guessing on this matter?

5. If God can give you a vision, then why hasn't God appeared to the 40,000 Christian denominations and given all of them the same interpretation of the Bible so that they are all in agreement?

6. For that matter, if God can give you a vision, then why hasn't God appeared to the all of the various religions in the world, explain where they are misinterpreting his wishes, tells them what he really wants, what he really desires from humanity in order to end religious schism, division, confusion and discord?

7. According to the WT February 2017 par.12, p.26 - "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible."

So the GB has admitted that God/the Holy Spirit does not speak to /communicate with them. Yet you claim that God, via an angel, gave you a vision?

So God contacts/communicates with you but not the GB?

Why would God contact/communicate with you but not the GB?

Isn't the GB equally seeking God's will and praying to him, so why isn't God answering them, speaking with them, communicating with them, contacting them as he does you?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

So, if a person does not get baptized does Jesus' death still erase the guilt of original sin from that person?
"No."

So is it Jesus' death that erases the guilt of original sin or is it baptism that erases the guilt of original sin?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"I'm not asking anyone to believe in Christianity because I had some strange experience."

You seem rather confused as to whether or not God himself gave you your vision:

Did you receive this vision from God himself?
"Idk. Probably not."

You subsequently contradicted yourself:

What was the source of your vision then?
"God."

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person."

So, if a person does not get baptized does Jesus' death still erase the guilt of original sin from that person?

"The consequence of original sin is a broken human nature. Humans in this condition commit personal sins"

But if Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person why is human nature still broken such that humans continue to sin and commit evil acts?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"There's no official position from Catholic Church about why Jesus was killed. It's a complete mystery."

"Obviously there was another possibility or possibilities because Jesus prayed for the possibility to get another option "take this cup from me".

And the crucifixion made no sense to his disciples."

Your foregoing comments claim that Jesus' death has nothing to do with cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve.

So, if not Jesus' death, then, does God have a different plan for cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering which has been as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

Is the Original Sin committed by Adam & Eve in anyway responsible for the evil and suffereing which we see in the world today?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

Is the Original Sin committed by Adam & Eve in anyway responsible for the evil and suffering which we see in the world today

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

Jesus was a perfect human, he couldn't die from natural causes.
"That's a JW interpretation. Adam and Eve were "perfect" too but they needed the tree of life (to sustain their lives?)."

This therefore means that if Jesus was given access to the "tree of life" he would live forever as a human. It would therefore not be possible for him to die a natural death as long as he had access to the "tree of life".

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

At what point did the beings in heaven stop having free will?

"Some point before the original sin."

The angels still had free will AFTER the original sin was committed:

- Angels had sexual intercourse with humans who gave birth to the Nephilim according to Genesis

- Revelation 12: Satan and his demons were cast down to the earth after losing their battle with Michael, the archangel.

"It was revealed to the angels the humankind will fall and God himself would become a human....."

So God didn't have the foresight with regard to their eating from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil but he did in the case of the tree of life.

Having the foresight to realize what would happen if Adam and Eve remained in the Garden of Eden, God takes the precaution of putting a barrier between them and the Tree of Life.

God being omniscient proactively took steps to ban Adam & Eve from the garden of Eden after they sinned as he foreknew that they would eat from the tree of life and live.

Yet he didn't foreknow that they would eat from the tree with the forbidden fruit and thereby take steps to put the tree with the forbidden fruit out of their reach - only the tree of life was deserving of such a proactive action.

Or is it that God is not omniscient - not even of high intelligence - because he did not realize that without a moral sense, Eve and Adam would probably eat the fruit sooner or later? Any parent who puts a plate of cookies in front of their toddler and tells them not to eat any is aware of what the infant will do.

"........This implied angels to worship the human nature in God. Some of them didn't like that and rebelled."

So God took away their free will because they rebelled?

"When a free-willed being sees God he can't anymore choose (between God and evil)."

So the person has not lost their free will. Now that they have seen God for themselves, they have simply exercised their free will and chosen to no longer do evil things.

"Just like you don't have free-will between choosing a ton of gold or a pin."

I do have free will in this instance - I decided that the ton of gold was worth far far more than the pin and therefore chose the ton of gold instead of the pin.