Posts by deegee

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"The sacrifice of Christ it's only effective to those who believe."

So the condemnation of death, suffering due to Adam's sin, fell on all of Adam's offspring AUTOMATICALLY for a transgression committed by someone else.

Yet, Jesus' ransom is not applied the same way - it is NOT AUTOMATIC, yet beneficiaries have to believe in Jesus and his ransom sacrifice, exercise faith in Jesus and his ransom sacrifice and work at proving worthy of "grace".

This is unfai and immoral:Since the condemnation was AUTOMATIC and not the fault of Adam's descendants, the ransom should likewise be AUTOMATIC. Christianity unfairly stacks the odds against the innocent offspring of Adam who inherited his sin through no fault of their own.

It is a fundamentally immoral worldview where the innocent are blamed and punished for the sins of their ancestors.
There is no justice system in the world which requires innocent children to pay the penalty for a crime committed by their parents.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"At this moment is only give the sanctifying grace (to overcome mortal sins)."

"Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person."

"There's no clear plan for the planet earth. But it will be transformed at the Last Judgment. At that time everything will change."

Are you saying that God rather remove the GUILT for something which we did not do instead of its CONSEQUENCES, leaving us to continue experiencing evil and suffering?

'I will remove the GUILT but not the CONSEQUENCES' - is that what God is doing?

Why would a loving God not want to bring the object of his love (humans) relief from suffering and evil as a result of Adamic sin, AT THE SAME TIME that he removes the GUILT for this original sin?

Why remove just the GUILT and not the CONSEQUENCES SIMULTANEOUSLY?

"It was revealed to the angels the humankind will fall and God himself would become a human. This implied angels to worship the human nature in God."

So God went through the process of becoming a human when Adam & Eve sinned just so that he could subsequently die to remove the GUILT of Adamic sin but not the CONSEQUENCES of Adamic sin?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"The vision I had was extremely convincing to me and not anyone else.
Source: God.
Delivery: an angel."

1. So why did you initially deny that your vision was from God?

2. How do you know that your vision is not convincing to anyone else?
Have you told anyone else about the specific details/ specific content of your vision?

You refused to provide the specific details/ specific content of your vision when someone from this forum asked you to share that information.

3. What about your vision makes you certain that it was from God via an angel?
How were you able to tell that your vision was from God via an angel?

4. "There's about 4 views in CC about the crucifixion of Christ."

If God can give you a vision, then why doesn't God speak to the Catholic Church and tell them which is the correct view? Why has God left the CC floundering and guessing on this matter?

5. If God can give you a vision, then why hasn't God appeared to the 40,000 Christian denominations and given all of them the same interpretation of the Bible so that they are all in agreement?

6. For that matter, if God can give you a vision, then why hasn't God appeared to the all of the various religions in the world, explain where they are misinterpreting his wishes, tells them what he really wants, what he really desires from humanity in order to end religious schism, division, confusion and discord?

7. According to the WT February 2017 par.12, p.26 - "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible."

So the GB has admitted that God/the Holy Spirit does not speak to /communicate with them. Yet you claim that God, via an angel, gave you a vision?

So God contacts/communicates with you but not the GB?

Why would God contact/communicate with you but not the GB?

Isn't the GB equally seeking God's will and praying to him, so why isn't God answering them, speaking with them, communicating with them, contacting them as he does you?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

So, if a person does not get baptized does Jesus' death still erase the guilt of original sin from that person?
"No."

So is it Jesus' death that erases the guilt of original sin or is it baptism that erases the guilt of original sin?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"I'm not asking anyone to believe in Christianity because I had some strange experience."

You seem rather confused as to whether or not God himself gave you your vision:

Did you receive this vision from God himself?
"Idk. Probably not."

You subsequently contradicted yourself:

What was the source of your vision then?
"God."

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person."

So, if a person does not get baptized does Jesus' death still erase the guilt of original sin from that person?

"The consequence of original sin is a broken human nature. Humans in this condition commit personal sins"

But if Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person why is human nature still broken such that humans continue to sin and commit evil acts?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

"There's no official position from Catholic Church about why Jesus was killed. It's a complete mystery."

"Obviously there was another possibility or possibilities because Jesus prayed for the possibility to get another option "take this cup from me".

And the crucifixion made no sense to his disciples."

Your foregoing comments claim that Jesus' death has nothing to do with cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve.

So, if not Jesus' death, then, does God have a different plan for cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering which has been as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

Is the Original Sin committed by Adam & Eve in anyway responsible for the evil and suffereing which we see in the world today?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

Is the Original Sin committed by Adam & Eve in anyway responsible for the evil and suffering which we see in the world today

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

deegee

John_Mann,

Jesus was a perfect human, he couldn't die from natural causes.
"That's a JW interpretation. Adam and Eve were "perfect" too but they needed the tree of life (to sustain their lives?)."

This therefore means that if Jesus was given access to the "tree of life" he would live forever as a human. It would therefore not be possible for him to die a natural death as long as he had access to the "tree of life".