thought i'd start a separate discussion on the subject.. those who know me know i'm struggling with faith; i want to believe, some days i do but it becomes difficult.. many believers say there is verifiable proof of jesus' existence outside of the bible.. please post this proof..
_Morpheus,
The calendar thing was also mentioned in a similar thread started by punkofnice, which I browsed quickly. I'm not sure if there were any counterarguments against it in that thread so I just thought I would make a counterargument here for unsure's sake.
thought i'd start a separate discussion on the subject.. those who know me know i'm struggling with faith; i want to believe, some days i do but it becomes difficult.. many believers say there is verifiable proof of jesus' existence outside of the bible.. please post this proof..
Although there is the whole calender thing hmmm......------sparrowdown
When the monk by the name of Dionysius Exiguus developed the calendar based on Jesus’ birth, he did so based on the information contained IN THE BIBLE.
(As a side note not only do the two accounts of Jesus' birth in Matthew and Luke stand at odds with one another, they are also not historically credible on their own terms so Jesus’ birth could range from 6 or 7 B.C. to A.D. 7.)
strong family ties & family values did not matter to jesus:.
- a person must hate his or her family and themselves in order to be jesus’ disciple (matthew 10:37; luke 14:26).
- jesus will give a big reward to those who forsake their family, abandon their home, leave their family behind for him.
To "follow" Jesus did not mean to read books about him and sing hymns as it does today. For Peter it meant to literally walk away from his wife and his business and trek around Galilee and Judea with the itinerant Messiah.
Since Jesus promised that it would all be over within their generation this radical response to Jesus must have seemed not unreasonable---------cofty
Jesus' ethics were rooted in his apocalyptic belief that the end of the world was near, it would occur during his generation and so people needed to drop everything and follow him, give up everything in this world, sacrifice all and devote themselves to the imminent coming of the kingdom.
do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.
i was raised as a jehovah's witness.
i was born in.
Unsure,
The silence of John on the three hours of darkness at midday and a resurrection of "many saints" who went into Jerusalem and "appeared to many" at the time of Jesus' crucifixion (Luke 23:44 Matt. 27:45 Mark 15:33) is confounding.
The apostle John was allegedly the author of the fourth gospel. If he was, then he would have been a witness to the crucifixion and the events that accompanied it, because John 19:26-27 claims that while Jesus was on the cross, he entrusted the care of his mother to "the disciple standing by whom he [Jesus] loved."
Later on, the gospel of John claims that it was written by the disciple whom Jesus loved (John 21:20-24). If all this information is true, then the writer of the gospel of John was present at the crucifixion to witness everything that happened there, yet John said nothing at all about three hours of darkness at midday or a resurrection of "many saints" who went into Jerusalem and "appeared to many."
Who can believe that a person who had seen such remarkable events as these would have written an account of that day without mentioning them?
do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.
i was raised as a jehovah's witness.
i was born in.
Vanderhoven7,
There are no reports of Jesus' ascension to heaven outside of the Bible. No one else a part from a handful of his disciples saw it.
Such a supernatural event as this should have certainly been something that others, a part from those in the Bible, would have noticed and documented (Josephus et. al.).
do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.
i was raised as a jehovah's witness.
i was born in.
It's indeed strange that no one else saw Jesus ascending to heaven except a handful of his disciples.
Even if you are not looking upwards and are looking straight ahead it’s still possible to see an upward motion rising towards to sky. Yet no one else saw Jesus’ ascension only a handful of his disciples did.
It's even stranger how every eye will see Jesus when he returns yet only a handful of his disciples saw him when he was ascending to heaven (Revelation 1:7).
ALSO, if a person claims to be the son of God then most naturally there will have to be supernatural events to convince people of this since anybody can claim to be God's son.
Jesus' ascension to heaven would have been a very easy opportunity for God to capitalize on in order to convince & convert the Jews.
If they weren't interested in being converted, we should at least hear reports about it from the Jews if they were eyewitnesses a part from what is stated in the Bible.
do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.
i was raised as a jehovah's witness.
i was born in.
The ascension proves that Jesus didn't visit India or the new world, have children and set up an earthly kingdom in Britain---------Vanderhoven7
It's indeed strange that no one else saw Jesus ascending to heaven except a handful of his disciples.
Even if you are not looking upwards and are looking straight ahead it’s still possible to see an upward motion rising towards to sky. Yet no one else saw Jesus’ ascension only a handful of his disciples did.
This would certainly have been a very easy opportunity to convince and convert the Jews.
do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.
i was raised as a jehovah's witness.
i was born in.
Unsure,
Isn’t it strange that the only people why saw the Jesus guy ascending to heaven after his resurrection were a handful of his disciples? No one else saw.
Apparently people weren’t in the habit of looking up back in the day. Even if you are not looking upwards and are looking straight ahead it’s still possible to see an upward motion rising towards to sky. Yet no one else saw Jesus’ ascension only a handful of his disciples did.
Can you imagine if all those Jews saw Jesus being taken up into heaven? Instant conversion and the stories they would tell! Mission accomplished with ease!
- after all didn’t Jesus say he was sent only to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24)
- this would have been the perfect antidote to Jesus' lament that he often longed to gather the children of Israel together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings but they were not willing (Matthew 23:37,38; Luke 13:35)
Imagine if there was a heavenly host with trumpets etc making a big announcement as Jesus ascended into heaven. Imagine the amount of persons that that one occurrence could have converted. This would have been a very easy opportunity for god to let everyone know about his son.
There would have been no need for his disciples to preach after all of that.
Strange how every eye will see Jesus when he returns yet only a handful of his disciples saw him when he was ascending to heaven (Revelation 1:7).
do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.
i was raised as a jehovah's witness.
i was born in.
PS: I'm glad to know you're not coveting my ox or my donkey! -------jp 1692
LOL that just had to be in the Ten Commandnents:
strong family ties & family values did not matter to jesus:.
- a person must hate his or her family and themselves in order to be jesus’ disciple (matthew 10:37; luke 14:26).
- jesus will give a big reward to those who forsake their family, abandon their home, leave their family behind for him.
Strong family ties & family values did not matter to Jesus:
- A person must hate his or her family and themselves in order to be Jesus’ disciple (Matthew 10:37; Luke 14:26)
- Jesus will give a big reward to those who forsake their family, abandon their home, leave their family behind for him. Parents, siblings, spouses and children are of no importance in comparison with the coming Kingdom (Luke 5:11, 9:59-62, 14:26, 33; 18:28-30; Matthew 10:37, 19:27-30; Mark 10:28-31)
- Familial rifts will be created. Jesus said he came to destroy families by making family members hate each other (Luke 12:51-53; Matthew 10:34-46)
- Family tensions will be heightened, families and friendships will be torn apart because of Jesus (Matthew 10:21; Mark 13:12; Luke 12:52-53; 21:16)
- Jesus disrespected his close family relationships. He insulted and spurned his family publicly for rejecting his message (Matthew 12:46-50; Mark 3:31-34; Luke 8:20-21, 11:27-28)
