it was announced in this year’s annual meeting that they believe that the king of the north is russia and the king of the south is us/britain.
for me this is the first time hearing from the society actually identifying the identity of the king of the north.
very interesting times!
ALSO, the multiple ways in which the WT and others have predicted the fulfillment of this prophecy shows that this "prophecy" was not a valid prophecy in the first place.
For a prophecy to be valid It must not allow for a multitude of possible interpretations or events, it can only be fulfilled in one way not multiple ways.
It must be clear and unambiguous so that its meaning cannot be misinterpreted or changed; and it should not be just a logical guess about an impending event.
it was announced in this year’s annual meeting that they believe that the king of the north is russia and the king of the south is us/britain.
for me this is the first time hearing from the society actually identifying the identity of the king of the north.
very interesting times!
The King of the North-South prophecy of Daniel 11 is one of the many failed prophecies in the Bible.
However JWs and other end times religions keep recycling this prophecy and projecting its fulfillment into the future despite their failed predictions.
According to the WT, in the modern age the King if the North has been Germany and then the USSR.
From about the 1950s the WT claimed that the “king of the south” in Daniel 11 was fulfilled in Britain and America, and “the king of the north” in the Soviet Union (USSR). (Your Will Be Done On Earth 1958, pp 263 & 278).
The WT's Your Will Be Done book stated:
– …the Soviet Union (USSR), the Communist power, that since it seized power in Russia in 1917, has held world domination as its aim to this day (i.e. up to 1958 at the time of the book’s publication).( p. 278)
– Down to the ‘time of the end’ at Armageddon there will be competitive coexistence between the ‘two kings’. (p. 297)
– Jehovah’s angel foretold further aggressions by the Communist king of the north before his end at Armageddon. (p. 300)
– The Soviet Union (USSR) will gain control of most of the world and its wealth and resources including oil.(pp 297, 303)
– The Soviet Union (USSR) will then be terrified by reports issued by the WT and initiate an attack against JWs. (pp 304-305)
– Finally the Soviet Union (USSR) and America will join forces to attack the JWs which leads to the annihilation of both America and the Soviet Union. (pp 306-307)
– Billions of people on earth who are not JWs will at that time be destroyed. (p. 347)
As we all know, the Soviet Union (USSR) collapsed during the early 1990s and has fragmented into a Commonwealth of Independent States and former Soviet republics, despite the WT's predictions that the Soviet Union will competitively exist until Armageddon, and will fall at that time after aggressions against the rest of the world.
In a previous WT book, The New World (1942), “The king of the north” was quite different and “included the Central Powers, or imperial Germany, Roman-Catholic Austria-Hungary, Roman Catholic Italy and Vatican…Japan…” (p. 324).
An even earlier WT book, Thy Kingdom Come (1891), applied the latter part of Daniel chapter 11 to the Napoleonic period in 1799.
i did my own extensive research as i was getting out, and by exploring actual changes and mentions of core doctrine, i learned how it came about that the gb teach that only they know the truth and only they get holy spirit.
i was checking if jwfacts had it, and although they mention many older articles, it seems they didn't realize they taught there was no holy spirit.
this was a real big eye opener for me, so thought i'd share it, and curious if any of you knew about this yourselves????.
Yes, I remember that they used to teach that only the GB has the Holy Spirit to direct them then sometime during the 1990s they changed that to claim that all JWs have access to the Holy Spirit, it directs all JWs.
Specifically, I remember the change being mentioned during a WT study and I was taken aback by it as I recalled that all along they insisted that only the GB had the Holy Spirit. This was one of the changes that sparked the beginning of my awareness of their doctrinal flip-flops.
i asked the question on quora: .
if the governing body abandoned the 1914 teaching, would you leave jehovah's witnesses or you would remain a member regardless?.
https://www.quora.com/if-the-governing-body-abandoned-the-1914-teaching-would-you-leave-jehovahs-witnesses-or-you-would-remain-a-member-regardless.
Maybe they will have more luck with 70CE since Preterism is a bit popular.
i don't think the wt ever say anything about this prophecy.
if they did, i think they will say it is symbolic and that it doesn't mean damascus will be destroyed literally,.
but watching the things happening now in syria , it seems very possible that it could happen.. if this prophecy comes true, will those of you here who have rejected the bible as the word of god think twice regarding the bible?.
Sinboi,
Isaiah's prophecy regarding the destruction of Damascus is actually a failed prophecy.
Some persons can't accept that Bible prophecies have failed, they rather reinterpret them and project them into the future (BTW, this also applies to Jesus' failed end of the world prophecy).
i don't think the wt ever say anything about this prophecy.
if they did, i think they will say it is symbolic and that it doesn't mean damascus will be destroyed literally,.
but watching the things happening now in syria , it seems very possible that it could happen.. if this prophecy comes true, will those of you here who have rejected the bible as the word of god think twice regarding the bible?.
What LoveUniHateExams said.
Isaiah was writing about Israel’s ancient conflicts with Syria.
Isaiah's focus was on what was happening in his world and what God would do about it in the near future in delivering Israel from her enemies and kicking the other nations butts - or happily allowing them to join the party if they bow the knee to Yahweh.
Isaiah (and the other prophets of Israel) were not concerned with “end times prophecies.”
The biblical records of ancient hostilities are simply NOT veiled references for what is going on in whatever moment we happen to be living in.
Don’t drag Israel’s ancient conflicts with Syria into what is happening now and call it God’s will for today.
i don't think the wt ever say anything about this prophecy.
if they did, i think they will say it is symbolic and that it doesn't mean damascus will be destroyed literally,.
but watching the things happening now in syria , it seems very possible that it could happen.. if this prophecy comes true, will those of you here who have rejected the bible as the word of god think twice regarding the bible?.
Sinboi,
Did Isaiah intend this prophecy to apply to a political situation of his day or to some event in the far flung future?
i'm writing this tread for the people out there that are still looking for some kind of answers.
people who feel the void that any organized thought system can produce.
people who know there is more to this life than our daily routine which eventually will end, when we no longer exist.
Maybe he saw them because Jesus and Buddha do exist ~ New Boy
One wonders, would he have seen Jesus and Buddha if he had not taken Ayahuasca?
i'm writing this tread for the people out there that are still looking for some kind of answers.
people who feel the void that any organized thought system can produce.
people who know there is more to this life than our daily routine which eventually will end, when we no longer exist.
What Island Man said.
There are many ways to access to the unconscious and experience an altered state of consciousness:
- drugs
- meditation
- hypnosis
- near-death experiences
- religious epiphanies
- intense prayer and fasting chanting
- speaking repeatedly and ecstatically in tongues
to name a few (there are also altered states that arise from illnesses, such as a fever or psychosis).
I have personally experienced altered states of consciousness when I engaged in deep, strong, intense prayer and mediation.
I was simply following the WT's, Bible's and elder's advice to draw close to God, become absorbed with him through deep prayer and meditation however, unknown to myself, I was actually self-inducing, voluntarily inducing an altered state of consciousness by doing this.
I posted my experience in this thread:
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6318622471356416/spirit-channeling-wallkills-bethel
Indeed, drugs can provide access to the inner world of the unconscious.
During a drug-induced (or otherwise induced) altered state of consciousness, you bypass the conscious, active processing of information in your brain and instead "see" directly into the deep levels of your subconscious where "unprocessed files" are buried.
You are just churning up unprocessed thoughts, impressions, images, visions, voices, words etc from the deep levels of your subconscious.
This also opens the way to the unlocking of a deep level of consciousness where psychic and extrasensory perception can be done. New insights well up directly from the fluid matrix of the subconscious and the subtle processing taking place there, without having to be first processed at the conscious level.
Our minds are never perfectly still. There is always subtle
processing going on in which we can't consciously identify the thoughts in terms of clear words or clear images. There are rapid and fleeting associations taking place in the subconscious mind.
Drugs like Ayahuasca can provide access to the unconscious, and help associate dissimilar things in meaningful ways.
This is perhaps the reason why drugs like Ayahuasca are used in the treatment alcohol addicts.
The renown psychologist Carl Jung made the excellent point that when trauma, distress unresolved issues, concerns, fears, worries etc are buried in the subconscious, if they are not dealt with, then they will take on a life of their own.
A lot of times people just can't verbalize, articulate, identify, label what is going on inside them, while whatever is buried in their unconscious takes on a life of its own as there is no intervention.
Drug-induced altered state of consciousness can help such persons face and experience the unpleasant, frightening contents of their collective unconscious.
look what an ex-bethelite has to say about the spirit channeling he saw first hand up at wallkill:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfmqnzbyrko.
now i believe rayven's story of horror at brooklyn bethel:.
Wake me Up Before You Jo-Ho,
I did give you credit for this comment in my earlier post on page 4 of this thread:
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6318622471356416/spirit-channeling-wallkills-bethel?page=4
No offence intended but I guess everyone is different - it would put a smile on my face if someone should find a comment I made useful, whether or not they gave me credit for it. I’m just glad I’m helping people undo religious indoctrination
