i went to a funeral yesterday and ran into a jdub.
of course, he approached me and it didn't take more than a minute into the conversation for him to get into the jdub gloom and doom mode.
he said that world conditions have never been as bad as they are now.. i looked straight into his eyes and said, "i think that world conditions were a lot worse during world war two.".
This is a great way to plant a seed.
This worked on me when I was waking up. I was telling a non jw workmate something similar about how the world is much worse now and he just matter of fact told me that conditions now were actually better due to technology and advances in medicine etc. It wasn't confrontational- wasn't religious or anti JW so it really stuck with me. These type of "common sense" things were what helped me really analyze some of the JW core beliefs.
i heard laurel and the wife heard yanny.
maybe someone can post the spoken word..
I heard Yanny. My teenage son heard Laurel at the exact same time. Weird.
paranormal stuff is common where my family is from it's almost expected.
native american background, my great grandmother was a witch doctor a damn good one too, my non witness relatives dabble in it.
so i have seen stuff and experienced stuff.
@OrphanCrow I'm not sure how widely accepted parapsychology was in the scientific community, but it must have had some recognition in order to have a parapsychology laboratory at a university like Duke.
I honestly just got a kick out of some the experiments they did. Yes, I completely agree that it's difficult to recreate these "paranormal events" in a lab. I'm not sure if psychology is much better though. Alot of studies look at outcomes/results and manipulate variables but the whole inner process of what's happening is hard to measure yet psychology is a respected field.
Culture is key though- Catholicism allowed religious syncretism so there was alot more acceptance in Latin America, for example of, native indian beliefs (on nature/spirits). The conquerors were men who came by themselves (for the most part in the beginning) and had families with the natives as opposed to the puritans who came to the US as families and lived in isolated communities with beliefs that were exclusive, not inclusive. If you go to the Andes you'll see a rich fusion of beliefs among the locals - they celebrate their Catholic saints and still have their own religious healers all in perfect harmony. So other cultures are much more open historically to "spirits" I'd say than here in the US.
paranormal stuff is common where my family is from it's almost expected.
native american background, my great grandmother was a witch doctor a damn good one too, my non witness relatives dabble in it.
so i have seen stuff and experienced stuff.
My boyfriend took a course that was being offered at our local community college on the topic of what happens beyond death. The instructor is a kind of a big wig parapsychologist who actually got a degree in the material when it was possible to do that. Anyhow, he teaches these 6 week courses on witches and voodoo, what happens after death and metaphysics and parapsychology. It's all based on his own research and labs at universities (back when they could find funding for these type of things). So here is a person, who is not talking about his own personal experience, but has actually done and collaborated in scientific studies with others. I only went once to his class out of curiosity and because i liked the idea of hearing about the studies and not just something anecdotal. His description of things was through a scientific lens so I thought that was pretty cool. Of course, I'm a big skeptic too so I filter things through my critical thinking brain and just listened.
My personal conclusion is that there are things that we do not fully comprehend and that there seems to be people who are able to perceive things that others cannot. I mean, is it such a stretch when you think how animals perceive differences in temperature/atmosphere/sounds etc that humans can't? anyhow, I don't know exactly how any of this works, but I just can't dismiss the evidence that is out there by claiming it all in one's head.
I actually asked why some areas seemed to have more paranormal occurrences than others- he answered it had something to do with magnetic fields. I think there's alot more to it than that too but that was his kind of basic answer.
Some cultures are obviously more open than others - the States was inhabited by puritans- this had an effect on multiple aspects (social/religious/cultural/psychological). There are cultures around the world who live quite harmoniously with a "spirit" world. I think people in some cultures might be paying more attention than others so they might catch things we would just shrug off. Of course there is the other extreme of folks who are very superstitious and attribute everything to "spirits" or demons. That reminds me of JW stuff.
What was really interesting for me to discover was that there used to be a group of scholars who were doing these experiments on university campuses which would be completely impossible to do now because of changed attitudes and perceptions regarding was is considered "science"
Here's an article he discussed in his class: http://www.newsweek.com/where-do-you-go-when-you-die-increasing-signs-human-consciousness-after-death-800443
i had a deep conversation with my elder father today about the bible.
first i talked to him about luke 16:19-31. the one where jesus makes this crazy illustration regarding the afterlife.
of course he had to look it up on the watchtower library to be spoon fed his beliefs.
Be careful- if I was an elder and my daughter, out of nowhere, brought up 607 it would bring up a red flag. Not to deter you from planting seeds, but remember that being labeled an "apostate" will get you swiftly dismissed in the best case scenario and df'ed in the worst case.
Unless you are a person who usually talks doctrine with your dad and it's totally normal.
i told my entire witnessy life story a few months ago here: snugglebunny's witnessy story.
it's split into several sections with comments in between..
That was a great read. I love a happy ending
my father died a couple of months ago.
he'd been ill for some time and had many health scares and heart troubles over the years but always managed to keep on going.
then one time he didn't.. i'm glad i got to know him again and spend some more time with him after so many years missed because of the wts but those years will always be lost forever.
Sorry for your loss-glad you were able to reconnect a bit before at least.
I could never understand that type of behavior towards your own child, especially as a mother myself. It's pretty over the top too - the force must be strong with her.
Living far away from the craziness is definitely a gift.
when i saw simons thread and the "interview" series of threads that came from it i really enjoyed reading the life stories of those that shared.
a bump for newer people seems like a good idea and i figured i would add mine as well.
again, thanks to simon for the concept of a guided interview thread and the template.. tell us a little about yourself and your family.. hmmm... easy question, hard answer.
Thanks for taking the time to write all that. I love the honesty on this forum. Beats the usual JW bullshit.
tell us a little about yourself and your family.. i was born and raised in southern california, with a brief stint with parents as need-greaters in central america.
my parents accepted a study in the d2d work, i believe my father was interested in the revolutionary aspect of the religion, and my mom said she wanted to learn the bible.
they were baptized in 1937 i think, and attended the one and only los angeles kh at the time.
Really great to read this. Had a very similar experience at my last meeting- I just knew that I didn't belong and that was that. Thanks for putting that all out in writing.
i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
My biggest contention with the OP is the idea that redistribution of wealth will help the poor. I lived through the aftermath of an agrarian reform which consisted of taking lands from the wealthy and distributing lots equally to the poor in a Latin American country. Unfortunately the poor did not possess the skill set or tools necessary to profit from these rich farmlands. The land was overworked and destroyed, the beautiful mansions on the lands were filled with farm animals and ruined. Guess what? The poor were still poor- just now they had some worthless land too.
A few years ago I saw a Peace Corps endeavor where some volunteers came and taught some marketing and small business skills to women who produced textiles in their small rural communities. The knowledge and training they were given allowed them to sustain themselves quite nicely long after the volunteers and their money had gone.
If you really want to help the poverty issue, there needs to be sharing of knowledge and skills- not wealth. This is why people who donate money to communities without offering any type of additional training or education only create dependence. Once the money runs out, that community is screwed. This is in the event that the funds even reach the people that need it. I also saw how regional leaders kept all the money that was given to people in their communities that needed the funds. I've seen clothing sold that was supposed to be given. The list goes on and on- corruption is real. It's important to look at results not good intentions.
I also have to say that there is a huge difference between being born poor in a country like the US and one that has caste like system that occurs in Latin America or India, for example. Poor people in those countries simply have very few opportunities to improve their situation - no matter how hard working they are. This is why endeavors that are led by people from within the community are better than those by foreigners with absolutely no concept of how things work and lack the cultural/historical knowledge needed who try to implement their idea of "help" without collaboration from the people themselves.
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
