Posts by JakeM2012

21

Is the WTS "refinancing" KH loans?

by doinmypart in

jw
friends

my mom's kh was built last year with a loan from wts.

she was talking about a letter to all congregations with loans from wts.

the letter was asking the publishers how much they can pay towards a refinance.

JakeM2012

The WTBTS after the 2008--201? financial crisis sent out letters to congregations that had a loan. Basically, after eliminating interest charges in 200?, they also indicated that the according to the current congregations financial situation the congregation could lower the monthly payment.

This was the financially "softest" that I have ever seen the "Society" and I was surprised. But at the same time they were advertising selling all the properties in Brooklyn. When it was news worthy that they had plans to build outside of New York City, I personally felt this news went over with the publishers like a lead ballon. I received some funny looks from publishers when they were informed. Kinda like, if Armagedon is sooooo close why move?

The last congregation that I had any contact with wished to add some parking closer to the building for the elderly, repaint, and recarpet the hall. They had 50K. The hall sorely needed it and there were many elderly that needed more appropriate parking. By 2009, the adjacent land cost a rock bottom property cost of 70K.

The completely new regional building committee that was appointed after the death of 5 members in a plane crash in Tennessee, told the congregation that it would cost $150,000 to remodel. So the congregation came up with another $40K from dirt poor publishers for the $150K plus the 70K for the property. The congregation then bought 2 lots adjacent to Kingdom Hall property to put the parking lot on. So total, the congregation had 50K plus the 40K they came up with totalled 90K.

Then the elders informed the congregation that the RBC had "forgotten" replacing the chairs and said they needed 20K more cash. The chairs were nasty, I even privately had a professional non-witness uphostery cleaner come over to give a bid on cleaning the fabric and wanted to pay for this myself. The congregation came up with another 20K. 90K plus 20K.

The hall was "remodeled' meaning new carpet, lights, paint, an addition for a kitchen for pioneering/schools, and a 3rd school. Total cost after the fact was $350K (over twice the original estimate) plus cost of the chairs and the property.

I had discussed with an elder about my concern that the congregation was biting off more than they could chew at $150 K and it was apparent that a significant recession was forthcoming in 2008. He was moving and said nothing to the other elders.

Things may have changed since the last time I got information, but the congregation had requested lowering the payment and was still 5 monthly payments behind at 0% interest.

Evidently, the society felt like a little piece of pie is better than no pie at all. However, being in the construction estimating business, I still have a problem how with all the "volunteer" labor the material cost were $350 K plus what the publishers contributed. I quit counting because I was so mad.

50

Elders breaking Confidentiality - I want this thread to be dirtyy

by usualusername in

jw
friends

i was taught at the mts school that no elder has ever broke confidentiality.. .

did my instructors lie to me?.

uun .

JakeM2012

Several years ago while in the library, several of the filing cabinettes were unlocked and open. I talked to several on the service committee that these files needed to be locked up. The files obviously consisted of all the judicial cases for the last upteen years. The cheap fileing cabinets were broken and would not lock. The elders did not do anything, and the cabinets remained that way for months and are probably still that way. The files were not removed or moved to a lockable cabinette. So if you had a key to the hall you could go over and read about all the Judicial committees for the last twenty years. Some confidentiality?

50

Elders breaking Confidentiality - I want this thread to be dirtyy

by usualusername in

jw
friends

i was taught at the mts school that no elder has ever broke confidentiality.. .

did my instructors lie to me?.

uun .

JakeM2012

Elderettes have the assumed and self-appointed assignment of participating in mid-week service to get first hand the scoop on publishers. Some have the ability to eavesdrop on 3 different conversations while pretending to talk with someone. The elderettes come home and complain about the situation or inform their husbands in round about ways of their information. The elder brings the grumblings to the other elders. Husband reports back to wife. So who's in control?

After a few snipe hunts many elders just couldn't be believed because you knew it was from their wives. Usually, the first question asked was, "whom did you get that information from"? Some of the PO's wives just wanted a soap opera in the congregation with a season finally of who shot J.R. in Dallas. What else could drive elderettes to go to all the mid-week service but to gather information for their husband elders?

I remember while serving as an elder the body considering a young man's qualifications. One elder says to all the elders after a favorable recommendation and most of the discussion, "Has anyone talked to him lately about how he is handling his masterbation problem"? I thought, you sorry dog; that was low.

Then you have the fishing elders, who want to try the ESP deal by asking leading questions to see if you will bite. You would think that confidentiallity means you shouldn't be digging for information that you are not supposed to know of.

Sometimes elders will use the confidentiallity card to cop out on their duties, for instance, when a family comes into the congregation and they receive a bad letter from the previous congregation. No one tells any representative of the family why they are blackballed. "It's confidential". So the family can't face the accuser and therefore, do not know how to defend themselves. I know one brother that said he has waited 3 years for the shunning to stop and he is finished and preparing to leave. I said, great, slam the screen door when you leave.

I thought it interesting when asking the PO's what was the most impressive thing they learned at the elders school? "Oh, I can't talk about that, it is confidential." So reading the OR book is now confidential? The confidentiallity of elders is a joke.

76

What the Watchtower needs to do to survive.

by jwfacts in

drop its teaching on paradise earth.. the primary issue facing the watchtower results from it's teaching that members will never die, but live forever on this earth in paradise.

this teaching is cause of most of the doctrinal failures, and will be its eventual demise.. the promise of never dying is one of the foremost motivations for people that join the religion, and the message of living forever in paradise is compelling.

however, it is also the watchtower's achilles heel, as it forces false predictions of the nearness of the end.

JakeM2012

The WTBTS's game is over "the kings have had their day". The last district convention I went to was a sea of grey hair that most likely will not be around in 15 years or less. I have talked to several of my older family members about "expectations postponed" making the heart sick. The general tone repeated was quotable, "I have too much invested in this religion to give up or change now". My mom said one time, "I have wasted my whole life". She is well in her seventies and has had long talks with another relative that left 30 years ago after the 75 debacle , but continues to remain faithful even recognizing the mistakes and false prophecies. I think that it is just too hard for many to admit the truth about the truth and are stuck.

A sibling keeps me informed of the congregation she goes to. The congregation has 150 publisher cards and they cannot breach 90 for the meeting attendance. She says that they will announce the attendance and she will look around and say "where are they, in the bathroom?". I know that from years past that once you know the trouble that can be brought by a CO of low meeting attendance, some while counting, started counting people that they thought could be there just to make the attendance look better. The same way with turning in 10 hours a month.

A cross section of the congregation is older widows, other singles, sister's coming without their unbelieving mates, basically socially fringed people. Many elder's families consist of an older husband and wife either without any children or empy nesters. The large families of the 70's where children have plenty of playmates is over.

WTBTS has only one direction to go: they will become more controlling, judgmental, and isolated. They will be around for years to come but the effectiveness of their whip is losing it's effectiveness. People are doing what they need to do.

28

Is your 3-day Watchtower Emergency Kit all ready?

by FatFreek 2005 in

have i missed something by not browsing each and every posting here?.

up till very recently, my two sons (one a jw and one, a non-jw) lived in the same community.

the never-baptized son decided to move to a different u.s. state and within a few miles of my home i'm a df'd person as of 33 years ago.

JakeM2012

So did WTBTS say anything about putting koolaid in the emergency pack? Cantleave, you don't need condoms if your going to be destroyed in three days. Think positive.

17

Has anyone ever put a flyer / note in the donation box

by biometrics in

has anyone ever put a note / flyer in a jw donation box?or has anyone ever found one in a donation box?

what was your reaction?.

i've heard of some putting stickers in literature (before it's published).. i was thinking of dropping a few in the donation box (when i visit my elderly mother i sometimes go to the meeting).. what would be a good note?.

JakeM2012

Magi,

If your going to put in the receipt from a topless bar timing it a few weeks before the circuit overseers visits will certainly cause a stir. Gives the appearance that Holy Spirit divulged this secret sin. Make sure there is some perfume on it. I like putting in some cigarettes in the bookbag with a playboy lighter that he is taking to the elders meeting and maybe the largest bottle of Crown Royal you can fit in his case. It would really make the others mad when you only put one glass in.

Everything else is invisible. So I donated invisible money. I wonder if they ever got a check that had a stop payment on it?

I always loved it when some unemployed sister that was going through financially difficult times would leave a check for $400 in the world wide work box. The congregation could not even pay for the loan on the remodel but WWW was feed by the poor. I can't tell if they thought that God would pay them back? or they were donanting to the local congregation for the recent renovation. I think the funds are intentionally confusingly named to net the most for the society. Brothers would drop large amounts into the Kingdom Hall building fund when we were talking about new chairs, carpet, and paint. They mistakenly thought they were helping out on the remodel.

Designs-I always loved it when the brother reading the account statement would get so emotional and the audience would applaude for the deficit. By WTBTS proceedure to tally the accounts of the circuit, there is not a corporation on earth that could show they were not close to bankruptcy. I haven't missed the circuit assembly busienss meetings.

70

Prozac Use Among JWs, Bethelites, Circuit Overseers and District Overseers, What Gerritt Loesch Said

by Scott77 in

any bethelite whom served the past 5/6 years remembers gerritt loesch's morning worship when he mentioned over 40% of those in special full-time service (bethel, missionary, co, do) were on antidepressants, such as prozac.

serious phenomena affecting many, but throw the tight reins, multiplies it.

mc rubbermallet.

JakeM2012

I know one elder that started taking Prozac and it made him like a zombie. He was a nice fella but very serious and naturally reserved. I felt like the Prozac affected him like adding chameleon wall paper to his soul. He just blended into the wall.

Maybe WTBTS has found out about some depression medicines like teachers have found out about ritalin. Are they serving Prozac pills at the bethel table yet. "Sister, pass me some prozac and some more of that liver". The Christ like love is more evident with a healthy dose of prozac. Bethel unity-just take your daily dose.

As anti-depressant pill veteran I have had my fair share and there were some bizzar effects on me.

23

After Reinstatement

by NewChapter in

jw
friends

i never had anyone close to me d'fd when i was still in my jw daze.

but i know that once it happens, good friends are crushed and desperately want that person reinstated.

when they are reinstated, there is a lot of (quiet) celebration.

JakeM2012

I had two close friends that were disfellowshipped after I moved away from the big city. One I have written to but have not received a reply. However, he is quite ill and I'll still give him the thumbs up. Since we are living considerable distance from each other, I am putting another letter together to let him know I still care. He never expressed that he had been disfellowshipped, but he told me that the brothers were coming and the reason why and by the end of the week his phone was shut off. So I just assumed he was. I tried to establish contact with him even having my wife contact his wife, but he never responded. My wife recently sent an email and she did get a nice reply.

Interestingly, both of these friends served as elders. I also served as an elder and especially with the friend that is having health problems, I have first hand knowledge that we bent and broke the "theocratic" rules so typical of JW's. We had some elders on the body that were like pit bulls in judicial meetings and I did not mind wrangling with them and getting seriously in their face that we were there to help this lost sheep. Sometimes, I would interrupt the meeting for a break and then we could have a "discussion" while the accused went to the restroom. I was able to stop a few disfellowshippings or lessen the punishment, but sometimes I was out numbered. However, I convinced several brothers to appeal their verdict. I just sat their with a chicken shit eating grin while the chairman informed the brother or sister that they were disfellowshipped. Later I would call the accused and say I forgot if the brother had mentioned about the time for an appeal and the process. This would open up the conversation and sometimes I had them take notes about what to put in the letter for reinstatment.

I would greet disfellowshipped ones verbally and many times with a handshake at the hall and if I saw them in public. I usually sat down a bit later than the song and prayer, and when the DF'ed came in late, I would help them find a seat whether I was attendant or not. One sister with three young roudy boys came without the husband and was trying so hard to get reinstated and I would ask her if I could take care of one. My wife and I had small notebooks that we would draw animals on, and we also had neat little stuff that kids would like to play with. This always raised an eye or two, but, i didn't care. This was 20 years before my fade.

I had another friend that served as Bethel elder for over 40 years before they sent him as a single man back to live with his mother. Anyway, whether this is correct theocratic proceedure or not, he told me that one or more elders that were on the committee can maintain contact if the disfellowshipped was trying to attend the meetings, as it was the loving thing to do. I never was questioned about any of my greetings by other elders. I felt that my maverick conduct and speaking with the DF'ed opened up the relationship once they were reinstated as they remembered how I treated them. It is also amazing the communication that can be transmitted with the eyes and facial expressions to let them know everything is ok, at least with me.

I had another friend that I had not seen in about 8 years, Brandt Jones. We both lived in the same city at one time. Brandt's letters are on JWFacts and I read them one day and thought I would get in touch with him. We visited on the phone and he told me about his situation and then asked about mine. We exchanged a few emails and I hope to ride my motorcycle out and visit him. I wonder if he would meet me in Sturgis?

In my younger years I dated a sister that had been disfellowshipped and I was an MS. She was fun and pretty. So much for an open mind, I was head over heals and she hit a snag with honesty issues with me and her re-instatement committee, but while it lasted it was a whirlwind.

I know that disfellowshipping breaks the bond of a relationship. Sometimes, it doesn't even have to be disfellowshipping. When I eventually got black balled it hurt, and I found out first hand how conditional love was. I was suffering from some serious depression when many decided to abandone ship. I just look at it as I am not the one that ended up on the losing end. I have replaced those friends that did not want anything to do with me with better new improved friends.

30

A JW's Comment Regarding The Magazine downsizing

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

on one of those pro-jw message boards there was a small discussion about the magazine downsizing.here is one comment that stood out.. .

though the special letter read, mentioned printing, paper and the cost of presses has led to a reduction in the number of pages in the public issues of the magazines, it makes me wonder- hummmm.

the message to the public will now be shorter - and more than likely more direct.

JakeM2012

"I suspect it won't be long when the Public issues will be only one page and printed on one side with the words, "Bye""

Why say Bye, or goodbye, when you could just tell the public that the magazines are being delivered invisibly?

47

2012 DC Program

by blondie in

jw
friends

digital publications.

books and brochures.

http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=qryqcsvrglbbx.

JakeM2012

Billy said, "I noticed right away that on the Friday morning symposium "Beware of Dangerous Heart Conditions!", they neglected to include the dangerous heart condition, hoof-hearted."

This is one of the problems with taking the Bible completely literal. Perhaps they are going back to the idea they had in the 70's that when the Bible talked about the "heart" or "heart condition" that it literally meant the blood pumping muscle heart.

Which would mean that the "heart" has it's own brain that is in competition with the, ugh..., well brain; let me try to explain, in the conflict of the the brain's brain but not the reasoning part of the brain of the heart, because that is the heart. As the conductor said, "Let's move on to the next paragraph we are running short on time".

Therefore, as the mad scientist taught before the blood pumping heart can reason and deceive us and be "hoof hearted". I somewhat remember as a kid sitting through this WT study thinking "what the, and who the son of a hampster thought to write this"? They eventually came to a new light that quietly swept this teaching behind. I'll bet this writer was moved to the electrical repair department and prescribed regular enemas.