Posts by JakeM2012

62

7/15 WT- Insane, Far Fetched, Narcissistic "New Light " about the FDS

by flipper in

jw
friends

i know this article has been discussed, re-hashed upside down in past threads.

but there were at least 2 points i discovered in here that i felt were pertinent and important to bring out concerning the total control and narcissistic tendencies that these wt leaders possess on the governing body, i.e.

alleged " faithful slave " .

JakeM2012

Flipper, Bump to Top

140

Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower

by Jeremy C in

i have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.

last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.

one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.

JakeM2012

Data-Dog, writes, " When the individual needs help the most, they are cast off. No wonder most never return."

Thanks for highlighting this problem with JW's. For years I have felt and have witnessed that JW's stop their "assistance" of people just when they need it the most. The problem is like a hospital's doctors and nursing staff rejecting people to only go on the street when they still have broken bones, just because this particular hospital "expertise" is in another field and they don't have anyone qualified to do the surgery to repair.

Example, a young woman gets pregnant out of wedlock, and is consequently disfellowshipped. Now the family has pressure put upon it to further push the young woman out on the street. Instead of behaving like a normal family and welcoming the child and daughter into the family, and the (grand) parents help their daughter get back on her feet, finish school, etc. Then at a more mature age, the woman possibly marries. But a little bump in the road, is not treated with total failure, and people are not discarded if not perfect.

Another example, I know of several men who served conscientiously as elders and really went out of their way to help people. As the years rolled on and their expectations and hopes for the end drifts into the oblivion, they find themselves on the other side of a bottle of alcohol, trying to drown their sorrows of reality fighting with false expectations.

After all the people that they helped and spent time with they themselves are thrown to the curb. I'm not talking about time spent being in an elder meetings, I'm talking about quality time spent working with people. The brother crosses the "line" in his drinking, but, at this point it is just an a momentary indescretion. The other elders respond by having to purge this "evil" out of their midst immediately. The congregation of JW's are very capable of metting out the judgement, providing the jury, judge and punishment. After disfellowshipping the elder, he feels even lower and even further abuses alcohol.

The fundamental issue is there's no assistance to get anyone back to a balance, there is absolutely no support structure or culture. It's like a quality control person rejecting a third or more of the product made, but there is effort to look at the manufacturing process. Witnesses are just messed up.

15

Would You Have Agreed to Get Baptized IF:

by Perry in

they would have told you beforehand that jesus was not your mediator?.

JakeM2012

Interesting question Perry, because WT does not have a specific paragraph that comes out and says this but maybe once in 20 years.

It is a very well hid but basic truth of Jehovah's Witnesses. WT will dance around using terminology like the ransom sacrifice and how all mankind will benefit from it, or that the term mediator is a legal term that applies to the ones purchased from the earth, but then they will indicate that all of mankind is basically purchased from the earth. Many unsuspecting readers will assume that Christ is the mediator for all men, as Timothy says, but you have to read the fine legal print that Watchtower does not include everyone as they put in brakets {but Not ALL men}.

62

7/15 WT- Insane, Far Fetched, Narcissistic "New Light " about the FDS

by flipper in

jw
friends

i know this article has been discussed, re-hashed upside down in past threads.

but there were at least 2 points i discovered in here that i felt were pertinent and important to bring out concerning the total control and narcissistic tendencies that these wt leaders possess on the governing body, i.e.

alleged " faithful slave " .

JakeM2012

Thanks Flipper, good shake down. I'll agree, when the FDS applied to all the annointed, we all knew that basically it was the 8-12 men that had control over the presses, but it fit well and was believeable that God was working through the remnant of future kings and priests, no glory seekers in JW land. It makes me wonder now, how many years are we from hearing the WT teach that Brother So-N-So, who is "Closely Identified" with the Governing Body, is really the Faithful and Discrete Slave?

I was discussing with Brandt Jones a few weeks ago on this same broader subject that 20-30 years ago the WT "truth" fit together even though there were many missing pieces in the jigsaw puzzle. However, with the passage of time, the stretch of believability has been increased to the point that the believability factor "snaps" like a guitar string thats been tightened too much.

For instance, in the 1900's whether the generation teaching applied to worldly people or the annointed, or to 10-15 year olds in 1914 or infants in 1914-1918, it wasn't that big of a deal because you knew a generation could only live for so long, 80 years with diminishing returns. Even after the debacle of 1975, without the "generation" completely deceased it was difficult to doubt with confidence that JW's were absolutely, 100%, incorrect, and full of it. But then the generation gets older and older and eventually the generation so talked about is dead and gone.

In 1994-95 Watchtower quietly disconnects from the generation teaching saying that the generation cannot necessarily be determined by a certain number of years. However, they still preached and encouraged expectation would come before the end of the millenium. That "evidently" bought them a few more years of still further stretched believability of "well there's a possibility". But this latest asinine "timely spiritual food" from the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" of overlapping generations is just absurd. JUST Unbelievably ABSURD!

I know for a number of years before waking up to the real truth, I found myself with a wait and see attitude. Carry on, endure, wait and see. Well, I have waited patiently like many others, and feel confident now to whole-heartedly dismiss the teachings and beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses as completly and totally false. JW's basic premise is incorrect, so nothing built upon their castle "paradise of sand" can be true either.

I think that WT is at the stage of let's "wait and see".... how it slowly implodes. The GB is there own worst enemy. Keep those presses rolling boys, your doing more damage than all the apostates could.

Thanks Flipper

28

Question for Current or Former Elders (baptism of minors)

by Michelle365 in

i have joint custody of my two children with my ex husband who is still raising the kids on his time as jws.

my 11 year old claims she is getting baptized at the next assembly.

i have heard that i can write a letter to the boe and say that i oppose her getting baptized before she is 18. is that true?

JakeM2012

Once JW's get your daughter baptised, they could then influence her (bully her) to cut off association with you and demonize you further.

I would start by discussing with both children (age appropriate?) the seriousness of their baptism and the possible effects on your famlies relationship. Just reasoning with her personally that Jeus got baptised at an age around 30, might influence her. If Jesus got baptised at 30, and he certainly had his father's blessing that was evident by holy spirit desending in the form of a dove and his father voice from heaven, what is her hurry? Does she feel pressured by the father?

I'd be tempted to run it by a lawyer explaining the consequences of a minor's commitment in JW world. Baptism with JW's is not like any other religions infant baptism. With JW's baptism as a minor, your daughter will be expected immediately, at the age of 11, to bear the responsibility of an adult within the congregation. Depending on the country your in, there might be some motion that you could make in court that could delay it and/or contingent on a judges decision. At the least, a lawyer could write a "hammer" type letter to your husband, which would be better than writing a letter to the elders.

25

Considered for Recommendation as Elder but Declined

by ProfCNJ in

hi folks.

one of the elders was sent to our house to talk to me the possibility of being recommended as elder.

he did not know however that one of the elders who is a friend of mine had already divulged this future meeting.

JakeM2012

ProfCNJ, interesting experience, especially with your posting here while being considered for an elder.

I grew up with my father as an elder, I worked at branches around the world and on a first hand basis worked with a wide range of "elders" in the branches and congregations, some of them professing to be of the annoited. Some where royal jerks and very headstrong on their personal opinions, others were all right.

I still was not prepared for the heated fight I witnessed at my first elders meeting after appointment, between the PO and a group of elders who were frustrated that they were not more prominent. Further, after years of serving as a quality elder, (didn't try to make too many waves, concentrated on what was important scripturally), I was not prepared for the hatchet wielded upon me from elders who I considered my "friends". When you are young you can be naive and think that you can make a difference but in reality you are assimilated into the machine.

Many elders that are appointed have no other area in life that they feel respected. The secular jobs they have are low respect jobs and no one ever listens to them. So when someone asks them about being an elder they are eager; they are eager to find a place where they can wield their authority, get up on a stage in a suit and act authoritative. Many brothers sincerely believe that they are appointed by God to "run" the congregation, and that means "run" peoples personal lives.

I've seen elders put pressure on families and individuals about things that were by a long shot not the congregations business. I was known for raising my hand during elders meeting and asking, "And why is this any of the congregations business"? or "Where do we get the authority from the scriptures to believe we have any business in this personal matter?" There was so much time wasted talking about stuff that was not the elders business.

For example, There was a young couple that were getting married. There was some competition between this engaged couple and the PO's (COBE) family. The PO's daughter and wife were the source of the competition. The young couple were not even getting married in the Kingdom Hall, but the PO privately went around to all elders and servants and asked if they were planning on attending the wedding. If an elder or servant was planning on attending the wedding, then they would receive a 15 minute speech about all the reasons not to attend.

The PO repeatedly went to the Elder that was giving the talk at the wedding, and did everything he could to make this brother not give the talk. His approach was a mix of harassment and hounder. The PO made the comment to me that the couple needed to get a Justice of the Peace to marry them.

I told him to mind his own business, and if he decided not to go that was his business, but for him and his wife to privately go around in the congregation to influence people not to go, was innappriopiate, unloving, and downright hateful. I don't know about you, but this crappy experience I had is not what I thought being an elder meant and it was from this point afterward that I no longer wanted to serve.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

23

Public WT magazines - Some stats

by Splash in

on their website, the soc explains why they are halving the size of the public wt and awake!

magazines:.

and this is the wt only, not the awake!.

JakeM2012

I remember in the late 1990's that a friend of mine, (who had been at Bethel for 12 years), and I had made the suggestion to cut cost to make only one Awake magazine a month, and we were quickly viewed as somewhere between being "negative" to a more firm apostate.

There were a lot of things that we talked about, questioned, but evidently word "got out".

I also remember that the fellow elders had to bring up such "negative" talk as to one of the reasons why I shouldn't be an elder anymore. They "let" me resign, oh, so loving. I think now it bothered management that we were ahead of the borg's thinking; can't have a suggestion from the field to the GB, they get their direction from God, not the field. LOL

26

Losing my religion

by vikesgirl101 in

howdy!

i have been out of the jw's for about five years now.

it has been about four years since i've posted.

JakeM2012

Vikesgirl, thank you for relating your experience, I've wondered what I might get into by trying different churches. I've had it suggested just for the opportunity to meet other people and families.

On a lighter note, perhaps what you experienced is due to your not living in the territory boundaries of the congregation.LOL.

37

When "The Persecution" Comes - What a Let Down that turned out to be!

by cofty in

when i was young there was endless speculation about "the persecution".

i have very clear memories as a child sitting in the old kingdom hall in coatbridge hearing it talked about from the platform.

it was a frequent topic at home.. sometimes there was lurid detail about what sort of torture "they" might use against us to make us betray others.

JakeM2012

I was raised in this time period and remember the 1974 yearbook discussing the persecution. My dad told me about some of it, particularly some of the brothers having their testicles smashed with bricks, the rapes, the making of people sit on chairs with nails. Dad said he did not want me reading it because I was so young, ....too late, too much was said for me not to have ill feelings about our ficticious "enemy".

The persecution was frequently referred to at the meetings and discussed in small groups. I too remember that it was brought up to pray silently about persecution because Satan could be listening in, or the encouraging of "putting up with one another in the congregation" because you might be imprisoned with the brother or sister that you dislike.

I think it interesting that for me my persecution has come from my family that is active in the "truth" as Jehovah's Witnesses. They certainly have learned how to be hateful. I might as well be in a concentration camp.

32

Are Jehovahs Witnesses a Cult?

by The Quiet One in

http://sianrose.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/are-jehovahs-witnesses-a-sect-or-a-cult/.

JakeM2012

"It is precisely because of this close adherence to Bible teachings that the veneration and idolization of human leaders so characteristic of cults today is not to be found among Jehovah’s Witnesses. They reject the concept of a clergy-laity distinction. "

DATADOG,

I think you cyberly read my lips. The author is either as naive as they come, or well...., I hate to call someone a liar, they are grossly misinformed.

There seems to be several websites brought up here of individuals who are defending JW's or apologist. Is this a new trend that JW's personally are hosting their own propaganda site in support of the WTBTS? Or is it theocratic warfare that individual Branches are encouraging and supportive of?