Posts by David

25

How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

by I_love_Jeff in

read exodus 22:6-8

jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

David_Jay

I_love_Jeff was not looking for answers, thought it might seem like it.

Now I might be mistaken, but it seems as if the OP had their mind made up on the subjects they wrote about. And that is all and good.

Unfortunately I got a few too many unwelcomed PMs as a result from people not necessarily involved in the discussion originally that used this opportunity to harass me a bit.

Of course, I am not saying who they were, and I am sure it was not I_love_Jeff's idea for this to happen either. I_love_Jeff was merely sharing information and wishing to explain the view that they have.

I_love_Jeff, you are likely unaware of what was going on as are others who are reading this thread. So I just ask that if people want to play games and send people unwelcome messages privately, that you have a little more courage to bring out your points in the open to the thread like the rest of us did instead of using this as an opportunity to insult me privately.

I'm a big boy. I am not hurt. But I don't think the OP or anyone on this site likes to be set up.

Thanks for introducing the the original subject matter anyway, I_love_Jeff, and thanks to others who were being civil to me instead of playing games in private messages.

59

FWIW -- Anonymous suggests North Korea will start WWIII before the end of this year

by kpop in

jw
friends

i know most of you don't know what anonymous is or what the real 4chan is, but both are saying that their global meta data is pointing that now with south korean elections going to a pro war candidate (moon, who is a psycho) and china saying there may be no other solution, north korea will strike first before the end of this year.

japan has called up reserves.

take it with a grain of salt.

David_Jay

One needs to be very wary about predictions of a coming "World War III," mostly because it has become a misnomer that often gets confused with a nuclear war or any holocaust scenario.

In reality, there was no such thing as "World War I" until 1941, when the bombing of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese got the United States to formally enter the war against the Axis Powers. With the USA added, the new situation got dubbed "World War II."

The previous international war was merely called "The Great War" until then. After the new "buzzword" for the 1941 war came into play, the Great War became "World War I."

Wars get their names after they've begun, and even then these can change depending on what follows or due to the final outcome. A nuclear exchange between the superpowers is often called "World War III" in the minds of many, but so are smaller nuclear war scenarios like the one we are talking about here. It has become an "anything to anybody" buzzword.

To be honest, even if North Korea started some nuclear exchange, it might not involve the entire world at war. In fact, some important academics and historians are checking to see if the title "World War IV" may be more appropriate due to words spoken by Pope Francis between 2014 and 2015.

Pope Francis has several times described the current world situation as a "piecemeal" world war, several times referring to it as "World War III" in his speeches to dignitaries while on his world tours. The Pope may be technically correct as almost the entire world is either engaged in the "War on Terror" or some other battle at present.

While only history will tell if the Pope will be considered the first person to dub the present world paradigm correctly as "World War III" (and I am NOT saying I agree with him whatsoever), semantically-speaking the current situation is more of a world war than an exchange of weapons between only the U.S. and North Korea would be. If anything, one might argue that such an exchange can only add to the current world paradigm, not be the act that begins or defines it.

25

How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

by I_love_Jeff in

read exodus 22:6-8

jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

David_Jay

Cold Steel,

I appreciate your words.

And, while it is very true that Jews can vary widely on personal convictions, all Jews, whether humanist or theist, accept prophecy as coming from God.

Unlike the Gentile religions that believe in a supernatural or miraculous communication as forming a direct oracle from the Divine, Jews understand direct revelation from God differently.

A direct prophecy from God can come in the form of the way something in nature works, from the mindless mountains and stars that obey the laws of the universe.

A direct communication from God can come in the form of a strong sense of justice in the mind and heart of an atheist who then stands up and proclaims a need for change and then active fights for that change.

The prophets of Israel were similar. They had a strong natural sense of what it meant to be just and holy. Their call for change may have been direct revelations from God, as in the experience a Mormon prophet may claim to have. But Jews see the natural incentive no less communicative and direct a line from God, and thus there is no need to see such oracles as precise dictations of a literal voice of God from heaven. The ardor of a righteous soul can in some cases be inspiration enough.

It has been very hurtful as well to read from you in another thread that Jews will have to accept that we will be subjected to proselytizing by Mormons sometime in the future. The answer to that is no. I will never accept such a thing.

So while I appreciate your attempt at trying to resolve things between us, I can only view your convictions on the necessary proselytizing of the Jews as disrespect. Proselytizing is considered an evil to Jews, and if you don't accept that, then you don't really respect us. It is what the Catholics did to us in the Inquisition. It is never moral. It is never right.

25

How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

by I_love_Jeff in

read exodus 22:6-8

jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

David_Jay

While I cannot validate Crazyguy's exact views (as they don't represent anything found in Judaism's knowledge bank regarding our own language), however he is on a similar track to what is understood about the various names of God in Hebrew.

The names for God came from different eras and cultures at times. They don't represent God specifically since God is ineffable in Jewish thought. But they do show the "wrestling" with the concept of God that Jews have engaged in over the centuries.

"Shadad" is the Hebrew word at the root of "Shaddai," and it refers to someone, like a wrestling opponent, who "lays waste" (possibly with violent action) to the one he is fighting against. This the meaning "overpowering one."

One last post script: To those wanting to argue the point further with me in private, please refrain from any more PMs. Keep the conversation here. I will be retiring from this thread for now, however, as I am needed elsewhere at the moment. So perhaps others might want to hear your point of view. You may have some good data to share.

25

How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

by I_love_Jeff in

read exodus 22:6-8

jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

David_Jay

Cobweb,

El Shaddai was also "borrowed" from another language/culture. It might have been the title of an Assyrian deity that "lost" to YHVH due to the long-lasting power of the YHVH cult in comparison to theirs. It was common in ancient cultures to dedicate conquered temples and shrines in honor of the gods of the conquering nation. In the case of the Jews, we would adopt the name to show that our religion " conquered " theirs.

The term seems to mean "overpowering one," and thus in English it gets rendered as "Almighty." I actually don't use the term "Almighty" or "Lord" or any English terms even when speaking in English regarding my religion in everyday speech. Like other Jews I will say "El Shaddai" instead of "Almignty." When I pray in English, for instance, I might say, "Blessed are you, Adonai, our God..." instead of "Lord, our God."

Thus the term "Almighty" is more a non-Jewish issue and may be something you might want to take up with Christian translators of the Hebrew Scriptures .

25

How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

by I_love_Jeff in

read exodus 22:6-8

jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

David_Jay

Post script:

You're welcome, to those who appreciated my comments.

My above post is due to several PMs I received from this thread from others who sent either materials, links, or wanted to argue and attempt proselytizing. That last post was directed to these individuals, not to any others.

For some reason my comments sparked a fierce PM rebuttal - fest, and I am not sure why.

25

How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

by I_love_Jeff in

read exodus 22:6-8

jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

David_Jay

While I appreciate the fact that some have views that differ from what I've posted, some are not familiar with me enough to understand how I post and why.

To reiterate for these what some others already know:

1. My postings generally contain data representing an overview of nominal Jewish thought on a subject, and it may not have anything to do with my personal convictions. Unless I specifically say I am posting my personal view, it isn't.

2. Jews don't have "beliefs" like Gentile religions do, nor is assenting to doctrines by faith a requisite or facet of Judaism. So the data presented in most instances isn't something you need tk debate against as there is no guarantee that I or any other Jew subscribes to what I wrote.

3. I have been involved in a handful of debates here, but I don't wish to continue this practice. Jews aren't interested in changing others into Jews. I appreciate the varied views of others, and I can best learn from others (and I wish to) outside of a forum like this. I just don't subscribe to the teaching that any one group has been assigned all of "the truth."

Finally, as to what some scholars might teach or believe, remember I have no need for Hebrew scholars. I am Hebrew, an Israeli, and I speak Hebrew everyday (and have been speaking it all my life). Scholars, academics, and others in the field of Bible translation have over the years come to me for help in understanding my language. It doesn't work the other way around.

I speak Hebrew, Ladino, and Yiddish, along with several other languages (and English is not my first language by the way). I appreciate being offered materials from Hebrew scholars and I have read much from many such academics, but it doesn't change the data in my post since it was merely encompassing general Jewish thought. It also doesn't add to my use and knowledge of my native language. But thank you, anyway.

16

How much time and money did we waste traveling to meetings alone?

by longgone in

quick answer: way too much!.

this is something that really gets to me, all the way back to my childhood.

twenty minutes each way, three times a week.

David_Jay

Every penny and every second that didn't end up in me getting laid.

37

Which Watchtower publications did you keep?

by Schnufti in

i'm currently cleaning up our bookcase and need to decide what goes into the trash.

i'll keep the watchtower books that are not available online anymore (e.g.

the brown "reasoning" book).

David_Jay

Nothing.

Of course it's been so long since I was in that my publications would have become apostate material now that the information in them is so outdated.

For example, one book said that God has to bring Armageddon before the year 2000 otherwise the human race won't survive.

Another says that the dwindling number of Memorial partakers is a clear time indicator of how deep we are in the Last Days.

And one of them has this crazy claim that the anointed make up a composite "prophet," the " Ezekiel class, " and that God spirit-guides this modern-day prophet to foretell future events before they happen so accurately that with the last thought of the dying wicked (having been slaughtered at Armageddon--which again has to come before the 20th century ends) will acknowledge about Jehovah's Witnesses what is written at Ezekiel 33:33: "Then they will know that a prophet has been among them."

Apparently the Watchtower Bible & Tracy Society writes, publishes, and distributes its own apostate material. Just hold on to for a while, and like milk you've kept way too long, it too will go bad.

25

How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

by I_love_Jeff in

read exodus 22:6-8

jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

David_Jay

Footnote:

As an example of how "sloppy" merging of languages can be, I had friends visit from Spain recently where in Spanish people were speaking of "el Internet," " el disco de Blu-ray, " and "la Scotch tape."

Since time forever people have been breaking the rules and mushing up languages. It means little really, except that people are trying to communicate about things using words that don't originate with their culture. The same happened in Bible days.

David_Jay

Posts by David_Jay