David_Jay

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Posts by David_Jay

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  31

  what is the craziest book the dubbers ever published?

  by dogon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i was wondering what book is the nuttiest they ever printed?

  i know there are several in contention for first place but which is your vote for no 1?

  also if you don't mind post a bit of what is in the book you pick to show why you picked it.

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  David_Jay

  Onthewayout,

  Not just the newly revised "Silver Sword" edition, but ever edition of the New World Translation.

  From the viewpoint of someone who has been speaking Hebrew my entire life for (almost) the past 50 years, and Biblical Greek for the past 20, in my opinion, the craziest, most asinine and totally messed-up thing they have ever published was and is the "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures."

  They might as well have made up the whole thing from scratch because it is such a far cry from what's really there in the original-language texts. And what gets me is when they try to defend it: people who can't read the Hebrew in my Siddur or my Hebrew Bible when I stick it in their faces yet claiming to defend the NWT's renditions anyway! That's insanity.

  I recall that I developed some serious questions about the NWT when I was among them as a teenager and was told in response that I was lying about knowing Hebrew. That was the answer I was given from them, and that's the treatment they give to serious academic challenges: You have to be lying.

  It's a fools Bible, a poor excuse for a translation, and come to think of it an act of sacrilege. They should be ashamed of such a shabby thing, but instead they are quite proud of it. In my humble opinion, their crazy claims in their books, tracts, magazines, brochures, and videos pale in comparison to their claim that they have authentically translated the Scriptures...and most accurately.
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  12

  Jehovah intervened in Russia

  by Sour Grapes in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i saw the recent video that the borg put out about the trial in russia and how pleased the russian brothers were that a member of the gibbering booty, brother sanders, came to support them for six days.

  well, there was a one-day delay in the trial which enabled the russian witnesses to have the memorial in their kingdom halls.

  well, brother sanders was very quick to point out that it was very evident that jehovah intervened to enable the brothers to celebrate the memorial.

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  David_Jay

  That's not a Biblical attitude to take.

  If you celebrate a day in honor of a deity that you're not supposed to, Biblically speaking, what happens to you NEXT is what defines things.

  The Jews worshipped gods they weren't supposed to, and what happened according to the Bible? Their Temple got closed down and demolished by the authorities and the Jews got sent into Babylonian exile.

  Thus the correct Biblical way of looking at this would be that the JWs celebrated the Memorial, and in response as a sign of divine disfavor the authorities closed down their shrines and temples and outlawed their religion.

  If the Witnesses want to be Biblical about it, this is a sign they've been rejected, not assisted.
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  26

  Saudi Man Sentenced To Death For Atheism

  by Bangalore in

  1. social
  2. current

  saudi man sentenced to death for atheism.. http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-man-sentenced-death-after-declaring-himself-atheist-online-video-591473.

  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-man-sentenced-death-atheism-ahmad-al-shamri-hafar-al-batin-appeal-denied-a7703161.html.

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  David_Jay

  Chook,

  Ancient Jews were not the enlightened community Jehovah's Witnesses (and even some other Fundamentalist Christian groups) claim we were. The Torah as spelled out in Scripture is more of an attempt at creating a just society but greatly hampered by ancient prejudices and limitations more than it being a law dictated directly from Heaven as the Witnesses teach.

  The asinine idea that ancient religious laws are perfect representations of the mindset of God is quite well demonstrated in the award-winning novel, "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood. The story plays out over a dystopian paradigm created when a Fundamentalist Christian Government overtakes the United States and imposes a "theocratic rule" which mimics the type of religious world experienced by Mormons, the Amish, and often reflects the type of governing body rule experienced by Jehovah's Witnesses (though militarized).

  Like these groups, the dystopia of the novel alleges Christianity but imposes a literal Old Testament application of law that ends up oppressing society, especially women. Among those suppressed by such a government, ironically, are the Jews who are forced to submit to proselytizing or live in Israel (where they are promised they can practice Judaism out of sight of the world, but all actually killed by the dystopian government if they choose such a way out).

  For those interested and have access to Hulu, "The Handmaid's Tale" has been adapted into a new television series to great critical acclaim. Masterfully produced and so welcomed by viewers that it was instantly granted a second season even though the first has just begun. The novel has been discussed here several times on this forum, and it is a must read for an ex or current JW or LDS or Fundie (and the new show on Hulu is definitely worth watching).
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  19

  Jerusalem's destruction.....

  by Unstuck in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hello all - so me and stuckinarut2 are at the state library proving to ourselves that wt has it all wrong re: 607. i've read at length jwfacts, jwsurvey and crisis of conscience that all go into the subject and i've just downloaded gentile times reconsidered.. while it is fabulous to have someone else compile all the research and evidence for you, it is quite another to see it in print for yourself - and so, here we are.. while we wait for our array of books i couldn't help but share with you how the state library has catalogued jewish history - 586 bc to 70 ad.

  no mention of 607 as a key date as far as the library's catalogue is concerned!!

  evidence before we have our books!!.

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  David_Jay

  As for the second date:

  The fixation on the First Jewish-Roman War (66-73 C.E.) by the Jehovah's Witnesses and other Christians is so very odd to me.

  The Second Temple did fall in 70 C.E., but it was by no means the end of the Jewish people. And it is not fully believed by academia that the Christians fled to Pella.

  It was with the Bar Kokhba revolt (132-135/36 C.E.) when the Jews were finally barred from Jerusalem. The revolt was crushed and all Jews were removed and barred from Jerusalem by the Romans in 135 C.E.

  The original Hebrew Christians had a church in Jerusalem up until then. In fact, the last Jewish bishop of Jerusalem was Judah Kyriakos, said to be the great grandson of the apostle Jude, a cousin or other close relative of Jesus of Nazareth.

  Because the Romans had caught on to the Jewish idea that the Messiah would come from the House of David, they began to slaughter as many of them as they could after 70 C.E. Since the first bishop of the Jerusalem church was St. James the Greater, a relative of Jesus, his replacements were all relatives and descendents of David, or so they claimed.

  Due to the Roman slaughter of the Ben David line, the Jerusalem church had 16 bishops from 33 to 135 C.E. when Judah Kyriakos and his Jerusalem congregation dispersed after Bar Kokhba was crushed.

  So the date for the Roman diaspora of the Jews begins not in 70 but with 135 C.E. That is when Jerusalem was emptied of all Jews and the Christians. And the "run away" to Pella may be an embellishment of sorts. There is too much evidence against it.
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  26

  Saudi Man Sentenced To Death For Atheism

  by Bangalore in

  1. social
  2. current

  saudi man sentenced to death for atheism.. http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-man-sentenced-death-after-declaring-himself-atheist-online-video-591473.

  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-man-sentenced-death-atheism-ahmad-al-shamri-hafar-al-batin-appeal-denied-a7703161.html.

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  David_Jay

  _Morpheus,

  I'm Hebrew. Muslims claim to worship the God-concept that developed and evolved among my people. The Christians that charged Stephen Fry with blasphemy claim the same thing.

  My point was that it it doesn't bother me, a Jew, who is a descendant of those who developed this ancient concept, so I find it odd that other people slaughter atheists in the name of this God. I don't see that such views are blasphemous or criminal.

  The persecution of atheist and humanistic thought seems to be highlighted less in the media. People in general seem to not care as much about this as they do about what happens to religious people, and that is not right IMO. Case in point: right now it seems everybody is covering Pence and his statements that the Islamic State is engaging in a 'genocide against Christians,' but how many people seem concerned that atheists around the world are undergoing torture and beheadings simply for exercising their freedom of conscience in their own way?

  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/11/vice-president-pence-isis-genocide-against-christians/101552368/
  
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  26

  Saudi Man Sentenced To Death For Atheism

  by Bangalore in

  1. social
  2. current

  saudi man sentenced to death for atheism.. http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-man-sentenced-death-after-declaring-himself-atheist-online-video-591473.

  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-man-sentenced-death-atheism-ahmad-al-shamri-hafar-al-batin-appeal-denied-a7703161.html.

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  David_Jay

  I must say, the rise in intolerance against atheists is highly disturbing and distressing to me. Just a few days ago, actor Stephen Fry was charged with "blasphemy" for publicly declaring his views about God.

  What is it? Atheists can't give their "testimony"? It's okay if they "do it in the privacy of their own homes," but you can't be one in public?

  If you believe in God so much that the voice of a minority and that of a few outspoken individuals among them (who are simply exercising their freedom of conscience to speak their minds) calls for legal actions and mobs and executions, what kind of belief is that? If you already wholeheartedly have faith that "unbelievers" will suffer in Hell, why do you have to form a "send off party"? If you believe God will smite these people, why not just take a step back and let the god you believe in do what you say it will?

  Sure, I don't like it at all when people say or do anti-Semitic things, but merely dismissing the idea of God, saying you have a bone to pick with God, or even putting up the world's largest sign that reads: "God isn't real people. Get over it already!" ...none of that is criminal. It's not even morally wrong, and my people came up with the God thing to begin with.

  What's truly horrible, immoral, and criminal is to read about such a sorry state of affairs as this report.
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  15

  When is a JW considered "awake"...?

  by biblexaminer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1) they begin question .

  2) they stop field service.

  3) they stop going to kingdumb hall.

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  David_Jay

  This is a trick question.

  Jehovah's Witnesses are never awake to the reality that they are in a cult. Only those who are not Jehovah's Witnesses are truly awake.
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  30

  Marrying yourself is now a thing....

  by James Mixon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i'am old so i need some help to understand this new thing, what's the point in marrying yourself?

  this sound like a gb brain storm idea....i guess you can never commit adultery....

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  David_Jay

  I suppose this gives a new meaning to the phrase "Go f--k yourself"?
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  25

  How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read exodus 22:6-8

  jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

  8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

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  David_Jay

  I_love_Jeff was not looking for answers, thought it might seem like it.

  Now I might be mistaken, but it seems as if the OP had their mind made up on the subjects they wrote about. And that is all and good.

  Unfortunately I got a few too many unwelcomed PMs as a result from people not necessarily involved in the discussion originally that used this opportunity to harass me a bit.

  Of course, I am not saying who they were, and I am sure it was not I_love_Jeff's idea for this to happen either. I_love_Jeff was merely sharing information and wishing to explain the view that they have.

  I_love_Jeff, you are likely unaware of what was going on as are others who are reading this thread. So I just ask that if people want to play games and send people unwelcome messages privately, that you have a little more courage to bring out your points in the open to the thread like the rest of us did instead of using this as an opportunity to insult me privately.

  I'm a big boy. I am not hurt. But I don't think the OP or anyone on this site likes to be set up.

  Thanks for introducing the the original subject matter anyway, I_love_Jeff, and thanks to others who were being civil to me instead of playing games in private messages.
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  59

  FWIW -- Anonymous suggests North Korea will start WWIII before the end of this year

  by kpop in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know most of you don't know what anonymous is or what the real 4chan is, but both are saying that their global meta data is pointing that now with south korean elections going to a pro war candidate (moon, who is a psycho) and china saying there may be no other solution, north korea will strike first before the end of this year.

  japan has called up reserves.

  take it with a grain of salt.

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  David_Jay

  One needs to be very wary about predictions of a coming "World War III," mostly because it has become a misnomer that often gets confused with a nuclear war or any holocaust scenario.

  In reality, there was no such thing as "World War I" until 1941, when the bombing of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese got the United States to formally enter the war against the Axis Powers. With the USA added, the new situation got dubbed "World War II."

  The previous international war was merely called "The Great War" until then. After the new "buzzword" for the 1941 war came into play, the Great War became "World War I."

  Wars get their names after they've begun, and even then these can change depending on what follows or due to the final outcome. A nuclear exchange between the superpowers is often called "World War III" in the minds of many, but so are smaller nuclear war scenarios like the one we are talking about here. It has become an "anything to anybody" buzzword.

  To be honest, even if North Korea started some nuclear exchange, it might not involve the entire world at war. In fact, some important academics and historians are checking to see if the title "World War IV" may be more appropriate due to words spoken by Pope Francis between 2014 and 2015.

  Pope Francis has several times described the current world situation as a "piecemeal" world war, several times referring to it as "World War III" in his speeches to dignitaries while on his world tours. The Pope may be technically correct as almost the entire world is either engaged in the "War on Terror" or some other battle at present.

  While only history will tell if the Pope will be considered the first person to dub the present world paradigm correctly as "World War III" (and I am NOT saying I agree with him whatsoever), semantically-speaking the current situation is more of a world war than an exchange of weapons between only the U.S. and North Korea would be. If anything, one might argue that such an exchange can only add to the current world paradigm, not be the act that begins or defines it.