Posts by Believer

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Believer

Great Teacher, you said:

Why do people believe in the Christian God?
The likelihood depends upon the continent on which you were born.
North America? Europe? Your likelihood is much higher than if you were born in Asia.
Is god so selective that he favors certain continents over others?

You make a good point. But I think only Christians believe in the Christian God. Non-Christians believe in non-Christian Gods. But isn’t it possible that rather than being different Gods, these are just different expressions of the same God? The Jews had their experience, the Christians had their experience, Muslims have their experience, etc. I think God is greater than all these expressions.

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Giordano, you said:

Unfortunately the only proof we have about a creator is through the writings found in the holy books. These are only speculations about beliefs that have an uncanny way of mirroring the culture that evolved their religion.

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Thank you TimeBandit for the welcome.
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And DJS, thank you as well. I assumed your initial post was a preemptive strike in anticipation of something you are truly tired of. I don’t intent to impose, promote, preach, pontificate or proselytize. A fair interchange is all I’m interested in. And I hope it goes both ways. I have no problem responding to the ideas of atheism, as long as it can be done respectfully.

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Believer

Freddo and Desirous of Change, it seems there are more agnostic atheists here than pure atheists. I respect the views of agnostic atheists because they remain open to evidence, whereas it seems that pure atheists are agenda driven and only want to ridicule and belittle believers.

If there is a God, surely there must be some evidence. But it seems you just haven’t found it yet. But the things you point to are real. There is a lot of suffering in life, along with a lot of joy. So if there is a God, then there must be a satisfactory explanation that is compatible with a loving God. We just have to find it.

In my heart of hearts, I think most agnostic atheists would love to believe in a truly wise and benevolent God who designed life to continue after death of the physical body. They just don’t see the evidence. That’s the challenge – finding the evidence. But if you close the door and conclude unequivocally that there is no God, you most certainly won’t find it.

Coffy, you said “Believer do you think anybody actually believes in god because of objective evidence?” I doubt it, but its hard to say. Objective evidence can lead you in that direction, but in the final analysis, belief in God comes from a different place. It is in the heart, and in the soul, not only in the mind. And it can exist with or without objective evidence. For some, the 'preponderance of evidence' or maybe the lack of credible arguments against the existence of God may lead him or her to ‘give in’ to the reality of a loving and wise God, to cease the resistance and accept what the soul has determined to be true. There is a great deal of peace in that route, at least it is for me.

And you also wonder what ‘exactly’ angels are made of. I’m afraid I don’t know, ‘exactly.’

Giles Gray, you said “How do we know the bible isn't a hoax written by Satan? How could you know for sure?” (Can someone tell me how to do the highlighting thing, please?) Historically, I think we know that the Bible was written by certain men. We may know now which men, but I think its pretty clear and widely accepted that it was written by men. I’ve never heard a valid argument that supports a conclusion that it was written by Satan.

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Believer

Ugh. I had to respond.

DJS, there is nothing wrong with emotions and feelings. Its part of life. I enjoy being an emotional being, experiencing the highs and the lows, enjoying love, and beauty and imagination and hope. Only robots and automatons don’t have emotions. Even atheists have emotions. Look at you. Next to Tor’s post, yours (the one you edited) was the most emotional of all. Rather than flushing emotions down the drain, it would be better to learn to manage them. Unless you want to be an automaton.

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Believer

Coffy, I thought I saw a much longer post for DJS with a couple paragraphs directed at me. Maybe he edited it down. I guess that's good! Bye for now.

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Believer

Coffy, you said “Not sure what you mean by "spiritual things"? (I don’t know how to put the highlights like you did.) What I mean by spiritual things are: things that are not material. Since I believe in God, I conclude that he is not alone. He must have created other beings that are more like him. That could include angels and other beings that are not made of flesh and blood. And since we don’t have the capacity to experience spiritual things through our senses, who knows what other spiritual things there might be. As a note, the Bible speaks of things that are made of a “more enduring substance.” That would be the spiritual stuff.

Man, I did not expect so many responses so soon. I have to go now, but I will be back later. So sorry. But I’m really glad I took the ‘leap of faith’ and logged on!

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Believer

Hi Tor, nice to meet you. You clearly have a great passion for your belief in God and the Bible. There are so many creeds and belief systems that people cherish. Unfortunately, it’s the creeds that divide us and lead to futile debates. I’d like to keep the conversation about God, not necessarily religions or creeds. We can surely find fault with all religions and religious books. But if there is a God (which I believe there is), we should be able to find him by some spiritual mechanism supported by actual facts since no true fact would be in opposition to the reality of God.

Thanks HumblePotato for the welcome.

StartingOver, I was a convert. Fortunately, no one in my family ever converted so when I left, it was much easier for me.

DJS, WOW, you came out of the gate fighting! And with a lack of knowledge about me and my beliefs, too. No need to hand me my ass. Unfortunately, it seems to follow me wherever I go! I believe you must have read a lot, but surely you haven’t read everything. So there are probably some things you don’t know. And maybe those things you don’t know are the things that could put to rest your distress about God, the universe and the reality of life. But it is not my intent to get into a heated debate with you, and certainly not so soon. I just wanted to know if there are believers here and if they wouldn’t mind talking about why they still believe.

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Believer

Crazy Guy, I agree with you that we have a big problem with our ideas of God. Some think of God as a great genie in the sky who must bow to our every wish, or either as a great warrior who will terrorize any who dare to disagree with him. Not just some believers, but also atheists, because when atheists try to ridicule God, they ridicule those silly ideas about God. I think if we were more thoughtful of what God must really be like, we’d come up with better concepts.

Azor, I don’t mind critiques. Really it’s the critiques I’ve read that made me really think and caused me to abandon some ideas I used to have about God that really don’t stand up to the evidence. I just wish the critiques can be shared with mutual respect rather than with ridicule.

KateWild, thanks for the offer. I don’t presently have any questions about “ chemistry and enantiomers” (whatever that is), but if I someday do, I will certainly ask you!

David Jay, I personally think your beliefs are healthy. There is no reason why a believer in God has to abandon reason, evidence, facts, discretion, or the common graces of mutual respect and service of one another. I think if more believers used the faculties God gave us, there would be a lot more unity in the world.

Coffy, I see your point. I could see how looking at the realities of the natural world could cause us to question whether there is a loving, wise Creator. I’ve come to appreciate that there are other intervening factors that help explain the existence of predators, parasites, etc. And as for evolution, I don’t see why evolution proves there is no God. Why couldn’t God use evolution as the way he chooses to create things in the physical world? I’d imagine the creation of spiritual things would be instantaneously, but probably not physical things.

Whew! I need a break!

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Believer

Great, there's 4 of us! Do you all mind sharing how you have managed to keep your faith in spite of everything? Or why you choose to still believe?

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Believer

Glad to hear it. Do you think we are the minority?

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Believer

Hello. I’m new to the forum. I’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join. I left the Watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in God. I knew the GB/organization didn’t represent God, so when I lost my faith in them, I managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent Creator. But I noticed on this forum that the most prolific members are atheists with very strong personalities that quickly beat down those who manage to remain believers. Hence my reluctance to join.

Based on what I have read on this forum, it seems most ex-JWs become atheists. But then I wondered if its just that those who remain believers remain silent here. Perhaps there are many ex-JWs like me who are just a little timid about expressing their belief in God on this forum. I wondered if the believers are the silent majority or whether, as I first suspected, the Watchtower organization simply churns out atheists.

So if you are a ex-JW believer, like me, would you be willing to start a conversation about why you believe in God in spite of what the organization did to you? And in spite of the ridicule that might come?

I will start by briefly stating that I continue to believe in God because, to me, it is the only logical explanation for why we are here. The wonder of life leads me to believe that a God who could create all the wonderful things we see and are able to experience must be greater than our religions describe him. I have to agree with some atheists that religion is a problem, but I don’t agree that God is the problem. I can separate the two.

And I believe in God because God is the only concept that opens the possibility of more life after our physical bodies no longer work for us. I can’t subscribe to the idea that this life is all there is. The body has capabilities far greater than we can now express. The mind has desires that extend far beyond our limited life span. That tells me that there is more to life than we now know and now experience. Science admits that they do not know it all and have only discovered a very small fraction of what life is about. So I am not willing to abandon my faith based on such a small slice of information. It would be like quitting school after the 2nd grade.

Nope, I’m a believer. Not based on blind faith, but on everything I see, know and understand. And that faith keeps the door open to the idea that there is so much more to learn about life and about God. Are there any other believers out there? Or have the Watchtower leaders succeeded in its apparent determination to separate man and God with its ‘rule or ruin’ doctrines? I hope I’m not in the minority here.

Believer