Coffy, I was a JW for about 20 years, and a serious student of the Bible. So I know basically what it says, and so do most ex-JW’s. So its a way of having common ground. But there are other books that talk about God and Jesus. Probably hundreds. The Bible is the most widely accepted one, but not the only one. And yes, I agree with many things in the Bible. But as Paul wrote, the Old Testament is just partial knowledge, a shadow and a type of the reality, so it can’t be the infallible world of God. But I think it is a good tutor.
And yes, Jesus believed in the God worshipped by the Jews, but he did not see God the same way as the Jews. He gave a new expression and a new revelation of God. Jesus’ revelation of God is how I view God.
But I did not want to make this thread about doctrines. Perhaps in another thread. I just want to see what the ex-JW community thinks about God.
Believer
JoinedPosts by Believer
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240
Introduction - Any Believers?
by Believer ini’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.
i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.
i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.
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Believer
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240
Introduction - Any Believers?
by Believer ini’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.
i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.
i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.
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Believer
Bonsai, What do you think God should do to people who do such things in his name?
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240
Introduction - Any Believers?
by Believer ini’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.
i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.
i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.
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Believer
intellectual dishonesty would be accepting things that are inconsistent with what I know and what I believe to be true. Being true to ourselves is the first virtue.
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240
Introduction - Any Believers?
by Believer ini’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.
i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.
i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.
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Believer
Coffy, why would that be intellectually dishonest?
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240
Introduction - Any Believers?
by Believer ini’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.
i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.
i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.
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Believer
Coffy, as I said, we can get a lot of information from books, but I accept only what resonates with me. In the New Testament, its referred to as the spirit of truth. It is a kind of knowing. Secularly it might be called ‘the ring of truth.’ Of course, it works based on our own knowledge base. If we don’t have a lot of knowledge or information, there won’t be much for new information to resonate with. That’s why its good to keep an open and agile mind.
Frankly, there are many things in the Bible that don’t resonate with me. I am comfortable setting those things aside and taking the things that do resonate. For example, I imagine what a loving wise Creator would be like and I reject anything that is not consistent with that view. I know strict Bible readers would object to that method, but the method I use to find truth its not up to them.
P.S. – I keep referring to the Bible because its something we all as ex-JWs have a commonality with, and the religious book I am most familiar with. -
240
Introduction - Any Believers?
by Believer ini’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.
i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.
i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.
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Believer
Xanthippe, you said:
I just know the universe is huge and I don't know what the hell is going on out there so I keep an open mind.
Great! Closed minds are small minds.
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240
Introduction - Any Believers?
by Believer ini’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.
i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.
i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.
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Believer
Coffy, point taken. I will just view you as an atheist who is open always open to new evidence.
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240
Introduction - Any Believers?
by Believer ini’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.
i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.
i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.
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Believer
Prologos, it can be confusing when we start labeling ourselves and each other – atheist, deist, theist, etc. I really don’t know which definition fits me. I am definitely a believer in God, but perhaps not the typical believer. And I am definitely not an atheist or an agnostic, but I appreciate the work of atheism because it helps us believers purify our beliefs by exposing error and superstition.
AnonVet, I don’t think a belief in God requires a belief in the Old Testament, the New Testament or any writing. Those books can help, as can any book that offers an interesting and informative perspective of God and his dealings. Contrary to what I used to think (and what many probably still think), the Bible is inspired by God (God was the inspiration and the muse), but it is not the infallible word of God. The teachings of the apostle Paul show that to be the case. But we can take what resonates with us and leave the rest, just like we can do with any writing, sacred or not. If, as many believe, we are God’s temple and the spirit of the living God resides in us, then we already have within us the capacity to find God and believe in him, even if we never knew about any sacred writings.
Tornapart, I was hoping to find that kind of ‘spirit’ here – a spirit of freedom of expression and freedom of belief, and freedom of thought. It does feel good having an outlet for the things I think about. -
240
Introduction - Any Believers?
by Believer ini’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.
i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.
i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.
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Believer
Great Teacher, you said:
Why do people believe in the Christian God?
The likelihood depends upon the continent on which you were born.
North America? Europe? Your likelihood is much higher than if you were born in Asia.
Is god so selective that he favors certain continents over others?You make a good point. But I think only Christians believe in the Christian God. Non-Christians believe in non-Christian Gods. But isn’t it possible that rather than being different Gods, these are just different expressions of the same God? The Jews had their experience, the Christians had their experience, Muslims have their experience, etc. I think God is greater than all these expressions.
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Giordano, you said:
Unfortunately the only proof we have about a creator is through the writings found in the holy books. These are only speculations about beliefs that have an uncanny way of mirroring the culture that evolved their religion.
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Thank you TimeBandit for the welcome.
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And DJS, thank you as well. I assumed your initial post was a preemptive strike in anticipation of something you are truly tired of. I don’t intent to impose, promote, preach, pontificate or proselytize. A fair interchange is all I’m interested in. And I hope it goes both ways. I have no problem responding to the ideas of atheism, as long as it can be done respectfully. -
240
Introduction - Any Believers?
by Believer ini’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.
i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.
i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.
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Believer
Freddo and Desirous of Change, it seems there are more agnostic atheists here than pure atheists. I respect the views of agnostic atheists because they remain open to evidence, whereas it seems that pure atheists are agenda driven and only want to ridicule and belittle believers.
If there is a God, surely there must be some evidence. But it seems you just haven’t found it yet. But the things you point to are real. There is a lot of suffering in life, along with a lot of joy. So if there is a God, then there must be a satisfactory explanation that is compatible with a loving God. We just have to find it.
In my heart of hearts, I think most agnostic atheists would love to believe in a truly wise and benevolent God who designed life to continue after death of the physical body. They just don’t see the evidence. That’s the challenge – finding the evidence. But if you close the door and conclude unequivocally that there is no God, you most certainly won’t find it.
Coffy, you said “Believer do you think anybody actually believes in god because of objective evidence?” I doubt it, but its hard to say. Objective evidence can lead you in that direction, but in the final analysis, belief in God comes from a different place. It is in the heart, and in the soul, not only in the mind. And it can exist with or without objective evidence. For some, the 'preponderance of evidence' or maybe the lack of credible arguments against the existence of God may lead him or her to ‘give in’ to the reality of a loving and wise God, to cease the resistance and accept what the soul has determined to be true. There is a great deal of peace in that route, at least it is for me.
And you also wonder what ‘exactly’ angels are made of. I’m afraid I don’t know, ‘exactly.’
Giles Gray, you said “How do we know the bible isn't a hoax written by Satan? How could you know for sure?” (Can someone tell me how to do the highlighting thing, please?) Historically, I think we know that the Bible was written by certain men. We may know now which men, but I think its pretty clear and widely accepted that it was written by men. I’ve never heard a valid argument that supports a conclusion that it was written by Satan.