Believer

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Posts by Believer

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  240

  Introduction - Any Believers?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

  i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

  i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

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  Believer

  Giles Gray, “inspired by” doesn’t mean God wrote it. I means God was the inspiration, the muse. That’s all. People may redefine the word, but look it up in any trusted dictionary. Also when you consider the crude and elementary understanding of so many things in the Bible, its pretty clear that an all wise and loving Creator could not have been the actual author. And the Bible doesn't say that God wrote the Bible. A better example of a book written by God would be Jesus. His life was the personification of the word and will of God. And that is actually what the NT says.

  Now, the questions you ask are questions that would be posed by a mind that cannot really know anything. So flighty and philosophical. Like, “How do you know that blue is really blue or just what you have been told to call blue?” It is hard to have a conversation with a mind that thinks like the wind. But let’s do this another day, when you have real questions that can spark an intelligent conversation.
  

  Good night all.
  
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  240

  Introduction - Any Believers?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

  i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

  i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

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  Believer

  Dubstepped, I was apprehensive about posting here and but my experience so far has been rather mild. The scenario you described is the norm. The loudest voices tend dominate, but that isn’t proof that they have convinced anyone. They have only caused believers to be more careful about where and how they share their beliefs.

  I personally don’t mind the questioning. As many people here say, especially atheists, if what one believes is true then it should be able to stand under scrutiny. I believe that and I will do my best to stand. I just wish I had more time to answer each one. It’s questions that helps refine faith and beliefs. Even if loud voices shout, I think the believers who are lurking or reading along may gain something from the interchange. And maybe, just maybe, something will be said to make even the atheist pause.
  

  The saddest thing to me about atheism is the way the proponents resign themselves to the same destiny as the unreasoning animals. They don’t seem to understand that man is different for a reason. We start as animals, but that is only the beginning of the journey of life. They are choosing to get off the ride before they even get to the first turn.
  

  But it’s getting late here and I have many things to do. I want to respond to just one or two more comments and then I gotta go. Perhaps I’ll start other threads to continue discussion along this line in future days. If I do, I’ll look forward to your input.
  
• 
  240

  Introduction - Any Believers?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

  i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

  i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

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  Believer

  Oh, and I did answer your question. I am a convert. Fortunately none of my family converted and my children were taught by me and trusted me, and left when I left. So leaving was easier for me than for many JWs.

  I was a convert, but not from any other religion. I was a teenager when I was baptized with JWs and I had no religious training or upbringing. It was solely my choice to join and my choice to leave.
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  240

  Introduction - Any Believers?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

  i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

  i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

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  Believer

  Starting Over, you want me to prove there are other books about Jesus beside the NT? Just google it. They are not hard to find! If you want to find other books about Jesus, just look.

  And thank you for the video. I'd love to respond to it. Is there a transcript of it? It asks so many important questions that deserve a response. If you can direct me to a transcript, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, I'll listen again tomorrow, take some notes and get back to you. This should be interesting!
• 
  240

  Introduction - Any Believers?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

  i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

  i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

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  Believer

  Great Teacher, I agree. So shred the ideas, but respect the person. There is no need for personal attacks and name calling. I don't there there has been any yet on this thread. (Can't remember and don't wanna look back.) So, so far so good!
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  240

  Introduction - Any Believers?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

  i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

  i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

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  Believer

  Azor, it is my preference that people speak to one another with respect. But not all people will. If you don't want to, then don't.
• 
  240

  Introduction - Any Believers?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

  i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

  i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Believer

  Coffy:

  There are no books that tell us anything at all about Jesus outside the NT.

  You haven't looked far enough. There are dozens, maybe even hundreds.
  
• 
  240

  Introduction - Any Believers?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

  i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

  i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

  1. 
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  Believer

  Without even stopping to analyze the evidence against a moral god, I find the bible to be completely illogical.

  I can't defend everything in the Bible other that to say it was a reflection of how the Jews saw God and the way people have since interpreted those expressions.

  But again, my intent here is not to defend religion and religious creeds. I hoped to talk about why people believe in God. Can you see the difference?
  

  
  
  
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  240

  Introduction - Any Believers?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

  i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

  i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

  1. 
  2. 
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  Believer

  Bonsai, you said:

  Any super being that would be above the problems and bad inclinations that inflict us fleshly beings would step up to the plate and physically and openly help us to see without a doubt that violence, killing and intolerance are not what he is about. A responsible super being would take an active role in clearing up the confusion that we have about this theoretical god. Any god that can't take the time to do that is not worth my time.

  But he did. He sent Jesus to address all those issues. Jesus corrected the errors of the Jewish religious system and explained God more fully. He taught the things that God wanted us to know and demonstrated a godly way of living. So the problem is not that the ‘super being’ hasn’t done it, it is that the people aren’t listening. Even in the Christian religion, there are many teachings that did not originate with Jesus. He has been largely ignored.
  
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  240

  Introduction - Any Believers?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

  i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

  i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Believer

  Coffy, I was a JW for about 20 years, and a serious student of the Bible. So I know basically what it says, and so do most ex-JW’s. So its a way of having common ground. But there are other books that talk about God and Jesus. Probably hundreds. The Bible is the most widely accepted one, but not the only one. And yes, I agree with many things in the Bible. But as Paul wrote, the Old Testament is just partial knowledge, a shadow and a type of the reality, so it can’t be the infallible world of God. But I think it is a good tutor.
  
  And yes, Jesus believed in the God worshipped by the Jews, but he did not see God the same way as the Jews. He gave a new expression and a new revelation of God. Jesus’ revelation of God is how I view God.
  
  But I did not want to make this thread about doctrines. Perhaps in another thread. I just want to see what the ex-JW community thinks about God.