i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
Redpilltwice said:
By the way, do you know how to catch a piranha the easy way? Just dunk raw meat into the water. When they bite, shake them off into a bucket.
Yes, and the fresher the better! LOL! Looks like they can’t help but bite, and then you know will who they are and who to avoid.
i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
Well I see one benefit that has resulted from believers being on this forum. It’s the wisdom you have gained in how to deal with those who oppose what you believe. The refining of faith through the fire, as Vidqun mentioned.
GilesGray, you said:
When we left we found our voice which had been forcefully muted by dogmatic believers. Some of us paid a high price for our freedom of speech and we are not about to lose it again.
Yes, I understand that. But remember, believers were also muted by the same dogmatic believers. So a forum such as this is also the believer’s opportunity to regain their freedom of speech. They don’t want to lose it again either. Surely there can be some respect for that so that every time the words “faith” or “spiritual” or “God” are brought up, the believer is not chastised or ridiculed for it. They should be just a free to say ‘I believe in God’ without have to prove why to those who really don’t care why.
Dubstepped, thanks. Great advice.
i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
Giordano, i want to answer your comments:
From Believer: "So maybe i'll compare the faith haters here with them"
We have people here who had to swallow a lot of ignorance as a JW, people who had their families torn apart, lost loved ones for lack of a blood transfusion. There are many things to hate about the doctrine's, the corporate mentality and reckless behavior of the WTBT$, but in general simply retaining a belief in a Creator and/or a God is not one of those things anyone hates. What is challenged is saying ignorant and harmful things in defense of one's beliefs.
I hope that is true. But I get the distinct impression that there are many here who actual hate the mere idea of faith itself, and probably wouldn’t make an exception for whether one has a faith in God or a faith in a religion. But I’ll let them speak for themselves. Those of you who are nonbelievers, do you hate faith?
"As former JWs we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are."
Here you are you mean as you are saying judgmental things. I don't believe anyone has told you that you can't believe in a God or Jesus.
I didn’t say that anyone had. I can’t imagine anyone in their right mind saying you CANNOT believe in God or Jesus. When I refer to ‘judgmental know-it-alls’ I’m referring to people who judge others who don’t think the way they think. People who don’t have a live and let live mentality, or at least have difficulty expressing it if they do.
"Though I've only been a member for a few days I've been lurking for 2-3 years."
Your lurking years should have prepared you for robust discussions especially if you are promoting a faith based belief.
First, I am not promoting anything. So far, I’ve only raised questions and defended myself when challenged. As I said in an earlier post, I knew what I was getting into before I joined. And though I was a little apprehensive at first, turns out its just typed words on a screen. I can handle that.
You also said "So I guess the other reason I keep checking in, I must confess, is like the fascination of watching a train wreck."
If I understand you correctly this forum for you is like watching a Train Wreck??
Yeah, that was a bad choice of words and a little insensitive. I apologize for that.
"But why are you here? What do you get out of this forum that makes it worth putting up with the attacks from self proclaimed animals? "
I'd appreciate you explaining that. With all of us being considered mentally diseased apostates..... with many upset to learn that that expression is how our families are told to think of us you want to call us 'self proclaimed animals....really?
Here, I was just repeating what Great Teacher and I think Starting Over said on the prior thread. They said they believe they are just animals and can’t stand people who don’t believe they, too, are just animals. I don’t accept that. I believe humans have an animal nature, but we also have something mere animals don’t, one among them being our spiritual potential. And so when i referred to 'self-proclaimed animals' I was only referring to those people who proclaim themselves to be animals.
i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
Ucantnome, Being able to distinguish the different between believing in God and believing in religion can make a big difference, especially for Jws who are still active in the religion. Many of them can’t tell the difference between God and the GB. If they could, they would probably wake up to the error much sooner.
i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
Ucantnome. What I said is blind faith is a faith that is gutted of spiritual reality. It is probably founded on mundane things, such as believing ones salvation depends on obeying a body of men or their interpretations and reinterpretations of prophecy. Believing that something will happen in a certain year is not a spiritual reality. Such a faith is a faith founded on a religious teaching or assumption, but not necessarily faith in a living God. I think if we can distinguish the different between believing in God and believing in religion, we will make a giant step forward.
i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
When you ask if some one is a believer, I have to ask: Believer in what?
Belief is a very big subject. Do I believe in a God? Yes, although I prefer to keep my opinions to myself these days. Do I believe the Earth is flat? No. Do I believe the Watchtower? No. Do I believe in the scientific method? Yes.
So what are we talking about?
JeffT, I can’t speak for everyone, but when I refer to a ‘believer’ I’m referring to a person who believes in the reality of loving, all wise, Creator God. I distinguish between a lover of God and a lover of a religion.
i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
Ucantnome,
do you think this has always been the case or just recently?
I think its gotten progressively worse, but probably has been around a while. I remember years ago, going door to door and meeting ‘apostates.’ They got it long before I did. I just couldn’t see it. And I suspect many active ones now can’t see it ... yet. So while its been there for some time, its getting to the point that its impossible to deny.
i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
Ucantnome, I think I get it. My opinion (just my opinion, mind you) is that JWs begin developing a real faith in God. They join the WT because they believed it would help them do that. But in time, they are required to turn that into blind faith, i.e., “following their directions whether they are sound from a human standpoint or not.” For many, by the time JWs decide to leave, their faith has been gutted of any spiritual reality and the remaining shell is easy to crack.
i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
Ucantnome, i dont understand your question. can you articulate it more?
i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
OK Phizzy. Fair enough. I'll keep that in mind.
