Recognizing hostility is not the same as avoiding challenge.
Believer
JoinedPosts by Believer
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Why do people need religion in this century?
by sweetgrass ini think people need religion because of fear.
fear of death and what will happen at death if they have been good or bad.
people say it gives them hope but is this not born too out of fear of not seeing dead loved ones again, or having a better life in the afterlife?
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Believer
I think people need religion because it is a natural part of us. Part of the way were are made. In the entire history of man, religion was there and it continues to be here down to this day in spite of the primitive ways it has been expressed. A very, very small portion of humanity has made a conscious choice to suppress or excise that need, but even among that very small portion are those who really want to believe, they just haven’t found an intellectual reason why. Some nonbelievers here have expressed that.
There’s a quote that says something like ‘religion is so important that it persists in the absence of knowledge.’ I think that means even if man doesn’t have intelligent ways of expressing his search for God, we will continue to search with whatever methods he has at hand. But religion, like everything else, is evolving. Judaism evolved the religion of its day by substituting animal sacrifice for human sacrifice. Christianity evolved religion of its day by substituting bread and wine for animal sacrifice. Future generations will go further continually refining religious practices and ideas. Just like the rest of society continues to evolve.
Our generation is on the verge of another great religious evolution. Perhaps the old folks can’t see it, or can’t envision it. Perhaps they are so tired of old religious systems that they through out the baby with the bath water. I think the younger generations will find a better way. Already, they are opening their minds beyond the old religious constructs and finding new ways of expressing their search for God. Many of the things about religion that nonbelievers hate are also being rejected by younger generations, but they are not giving up on God. They say ‘I’m spiritual, but not religious.’ (As are many in the middle generation.) They are more inclusive, more tolerant and more accepting. And they are learning how to encounter religious problems in more productive ways. That, in my opinion, is a step in the right religious direction, and indicates that religion is here to stay.
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
Ok, Liberator. As you wish. But if you ever want to have a conversation about the subject matter, we can PM and share scriptures. God bless.
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
Another thing, Liberator. The idea that you must accept the whole Bible as the absolute truth or you’re not a Christian is a WT teaching. Folks who don’t even know what a Christian is! Paul didn’t teach that. He said the old law is obsolete and outdated. He chastised the Christians who tried to keep the law. He said your minds are blinded when you try to keep the law. (Somewhere in Corinthians where he talks about a veil.) Yeah, you DO need the entire bible to untwist yourself from WT teachings. But once you untwist, you are FREE! Free to find God on your own terms and many believers here have done. Jesus freed his followers from burdensome rules and laws. He said just keep these two commandments (you know what they are) and you have fulfilled everything. None of the prophets were called the word of God. Only Jesus. Jesus’ teachings are superior to all of the words of Moses and the prophets. So if you believe Jesus is the word of God, then believe him! And be free!
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
At the mouth of two atheists! So it must be true. Sorry Liberator, I was wrong.
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
TheLiberator, nobody can tell you what you can and cannot believe, especially not someone who doesn’t even believe. Why does an atheist get to dictate what a believer must believe? Hogwash! If you’ve bought that argument, I can see why you are discouraged. If I were you, I’d let that foolishness go! If you’re a Christian, you must know that Jesus never said anything like that. He said believe in him. Have faith in him. Love God and love your neighbor. Do good unto others and let God be the judge. Even Paul said to turn away from the old law. Liberate yourself from all those restrictions, brother! Love God, love your neighbor and get on with life!!
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
DavidJay wrote:
Well perhaps this should be declared a non-believer forum or forum only for atheists. I myself will leave if it makes people feel better.
No, Jeepers!! No need to leave. I think we can all co-exist here. Who thinks this should be an atheists only forum? Or a believer only forum? I certainly don’t. But I am new here, so what do I know. That’s just my gut reaction.
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
Redpilltwice said:
By the way, do you know how to catch a piranha the easy way? Just dunk raw meat into the water. When they bite, shake them off into a bucket.
Yes, and the fresher the better! LOL! Looks like they can’t help but bite, and then you know will who they are and who to avoid.
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
Well I see one benefit that has resulted from believers being on this forum. It’s the wisdom you have gained in how to deal with those who oppose what you believe. The refining of faith through the fire, as Vidqun mentioned.
GilesGray, you said:
When we left we found our voice which had been forcefully muted by dogmatic believers. Some of us paid a high price for our freedom of speech and we are not about to lose it again.
Yes, I understand that. But remember, believers were also muted by the same dogmatic believers. So a forum such as this is also the believer’s opportunity to regain their freedom of speech. They don’t want to lose it again either. Surely there can be some respect for that so that every time the words “faith” or “spiritual” or “God” are brought up, the believer is not chastised or ridiculed for it. They should be just a free to say ‘I believe in God’ without have to prove why to those who really don’t care why.
Dubstepped, thanks. Great advice.
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
Giordano, i want to answer your comments:
From Believer: "So maybe i'll compare the faith haters here with them"
We have people here who had to swallow a lot of ignorance as a JW, people who had their families torn apart, lost loved ones for lack of a blood transfusion. There are many things to hate about the doctrine's, the corporate mentality and reckless behavior of the WTBT$, but in general simply retaining a belief in a Creator and/or a God is not one of those things anyone hates. What is challenged is saying ignorant and harmful things in defense of one's beliefs.I hope that is true. But I get the distinct impression that there are many here who actual hate the mere idea of faith itself, and probably wouldn’t make an exception for whether one has a faith in God or a faith in a religion. But I’ll let them speak for themselves. Those of you who are nonbelievers, do you hate faith?
"As former JWs we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are."
Here you are you mean as you are saying judgmental things. I don't believe anyone has told you that you can't believe in a God or Jesus.I didn’t say that anyone had. I can’t imagine anyone in their right mind saying you CANNOT believe in God or Jesus. When I refer to ‘judgmental know-it-alls’ I’m referring to people who judge others who don’t think the way they think. People who don’t have a live and let live mentality, or at least have difficulty expressing it if they do.
"Though I've only been a member for a few days I've been lurking for 2-3 years."
Your lurking years should have prepared you for robust discussions especially if you are promoting a faith based belief.First, I am not promoting anything. So far, I’ve only raised questions and defended myself when challenged. As I said in an earlier post, I knew what I was getting into before I joined. And though I was a little apprehensive at first, turns out its just typed words on a screen. I can handle that.
You also said "So I guess the other reason I keep checking in, I must confess, is like the fascination of watching a train wreck."
If I understand you correctly this forum for you is like watching a Train Wreck??Yeah, that was a bad choice of words and a little insensitive. I apologize for that.
"But why are you here? What do you get out of this forum that makes it worth putting up with the attacks from self proclaimed animals? "
I'd appreciate you explaining that. With all of us being considered mentally diseased apostates..... with many upset to learn that that expression is how our families are told to think of us you want to call us 'self proclaimed animals....really?Here, I was just repeating what Great Teacher and I think Starting Over said on the prior thread. They said they believe they are just animals and can’t stand people who don’t believe they, too, are just animals. I don’t accept that. I believe humans have an animal nature, but we also have something mere animals don’t, one among them being our spiritual potential. And so when i referred to 'self-proclaimed animals' I was only referring to those people who proclaim themselves to be animals.