LoisLane looking for Superman
You don’t agree with me. Fine. But there’s no need for name calling. People on this site think name calling doesn’t happen here. So don’t prove them wrong.
Believer
JoinedPosts by Believer
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50
Sometimes I feel like I Should Believe something...
by freemamaof3 inhas anyone else felt like they should believe something after leaving wt?
i am an agnostic atheist and its so so hard for me to believe in a god or higher power.
it just doesn't make sense.
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Believer
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50
Sometimes I feel like I Should Believe something...
by freemamaof3 inhas anyone else felt like they should believe something after leaving wt?
i am an agnostic atheist and its so so hard for me to believe in a god or higher power.
it just doesn't make sense.
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Believer
Coffy, you don’t want me to include you in a stereotype of atheists? Okay, fair enough. I’ll ask the same of you. Don’t thrust your silly stereotypes upon me.
While I do believe God is the first cause of everything, I don’t subscribe to any position akin to a “lazy God doing it.” In an earlier post, I summarized my belief that evolution is the technique of creation. I have no objection to the theory of evolution. As I believe you acknowledged, (or maybe it was someone else), evolution does not prove that there is no God. So believing in God and accepting evolution are not mutually exclusive.
And you said:
This atheist believes in love and joy and beauty and the awesomeness of the cosmos.
So you do believe in some things that cannot be proved by empirical evidence! That's wonderful!
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50
Sometimes I feel like I Should Believe something...
by freemamaof3 inhas anyone else felt like they should believe something after leaving wt?
i am an agnostic atheist and its so so hard for me to believe in a god or higher power.
it just doesn't make sense.
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Believer
I guess some atheists don’t accept the idea that we have an internal sense about things, or that a person can trust their own thinking. It seems unless a matter can be proven by empirical evidence, it is unreasonable to accept it. Yet there are so many wonderful things in life that are subjective and that can’t be proven by empirical evidence. Like love. Like beauty. Like joy. Why does the atheist sound like the grim reaper? Why does he have to say “Bah humbug” to even benign thoughts? All I said was you should trust yourself. Why is that such a bugaboo?
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50
Sometimes I feel like I Should Believe something...
by freemamaof3 inhas anyone else felt like they should believe something after leaving wt?
i am an agnostic atheist and its so so hard for me to believe in a god or higher power.
it just doesn't make sense.
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Believer
FreeMamaof3, There is pressure from both sides. One side pressures you to believe something, the other side pressures you to reject all beliefs. I say, don’t listen to either side. Sit quietly by yourself. Breathe. Be open to your own thoughts, your own truth. Observe nature. Look at the stars. Consider your fondest wishes, dreams, hopes. What does it feel like? Where is your peace? If your peace flows from deep seated desire to know God, to understand what his will is, why we are here, what the future holds, then that’s a sign that believing in a greater being is your truth. On the other hand, if what flows from within you is to reject God and all that accompanies the God concept, then go with that. Life, and life after life, is a gift. If in your deepest soul you don’t want it, God will let you live your truth. You are free to live out your mortal existence until your body wears out or something intervenes and takes your life. Many atheists say they are content with that outcome. And perhaps, just perhaps, your decaying carcass will feed new life that may make a different choice.
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25
Why do people need religion in this century?
by sweetgrass ini think people need religion because of fear.
fear of death and what will happen at death if they have been good or bad.
people say it gives them hope but is this not born too out of fear of not seeing dead loved ones again, or having a better life in the afterlife?
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Believer
SweetGrass, said:
Good article Believer, I have never heared of the Nones. So as I don't prescribe to any religion but am open to the idea of creation by a powerfull force, would that class as being one of the nones? Although I can't accept the 'loving' bit of a powerfull creating force.
People who don’t subscribe to a particular religion, but still believe in God ARE the Nones. And like you, many who aren’t aware of that subgroup label themselves as agnostics or something along that line since they can’t subscribe wholly to atheism.
This new group of believers, myself included, are troublesome to true atheists. Since they cannot pigeonhole us into a particular religion, they are stumped. Atheists can’t reach us with their rhetoric. Most of their arguments are like striking the wind. It’s like I was saying to Liberator yesterday about the folly of atheists trying to force believers us to accept either the whole Bible or none of it. That’s a self-serving demand designed to set believers up for ‘the kill.’ But like Jonathan Livingston Seagull, "Nones" fly away unscathed!
The bible does not shout 'loving creator' for me in any way.
The Bible is an example of evolving religious thought. The OT describes God as primitive and crude, whereas Jesus in the NT describes God as being loving and benevolent. It’s not two different Gods, it’s a progression of understanding. As he said, he did not come to destroy, but to fulfill, finish and conclude the old way of thinking. Jesus did not view God as anthropomorphological. To Jesus, God was a benevolent Spirit. So while the OT may not scream loving creator, Jesus certainly did.
And btw, Jesus did not start a religion. Paul started Christianity. He founded it on Jesus’ teachings, but he added things that Jesus did not teach. There are a lot of “Nones” who follow Jesus but do not identify with traditional Christianity. I include myself in that group.
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Why do people need religion in this century?
by sweetgrass ini think people need religion because of fear.
fear of death and what will happen at death if they have been good or bad.
people say it gives them hope but is this not born too out of fear of not seeing dead loved ones again, or having a better life in the afterlife?
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Believer
Our generation is on the verge of another great religious evolution.
Yes it is - the best evolution possible
The trend referred to in that article supports the point I was making. The misconception is that those who are turning away from religion are turning away from God. That is not often true. People are turning from old outdated religions and embarking on something new – spirituality, a personal relationship with God. And to many of them, myself included, ‘religion’ is simply the way we express our relationship with God, the things we do for our neighbors and fellows and reflect the effect of being a God-loving person.
The new group called “Nones” are simply not affiliated with a religion, but they continue to believe in an all powerful loving Creator God. Even the statistics about the number of atheists in the world are subject to the same misconception. ‘Nones’ are usually included in that group, yet Nones continue to believe in God. In fact, of the 22% of nonaffiliated people, only 3.1% are atheists and only 4% are agnostic
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
Recognizing hostility is not the same as avoiding challenge.
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25
Why do people need religion in this century?
by sweetgrass ini think people need religion because of fear.
fear of death and what will happen at death if they have been good or bad.
people say it gives them hope but is this not born too out of fear of not seeing dead loved ones again, or having a better life in the afterlife?
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Believer
I think people need religion because it is a natural part of us. Part of the way were are made. In the entire history of man, religion was there and it continues to be here down to this day in spite of the primitive ways it has been expressed. A very, very small portion of humanity has made a conscious choice to suppress or excise that need, but even among that very small portion are those who really want to believe, they just haven’t found an intellectual reason why. Some nonbelievers here have expressed that.
There’s a quote that says something like ‘religion is so important that it persists in the absence of knowledge.’ I think that means even if man doesn’t have intelligent ways of expressing his search for God, we will continue to search with whatever methods he has at hand. But religion, like everything else, is evolving. Judaism evolved the religion of its day by substituting animal sacrifice for human sacrifice. Christianity evolved religion of its day by substituting bread and wine for animal sacrifice. Future generations will go further continually refining religious practices and ideas. Just like the rest of society continues to evolve.
Our generation is on the verge of another great religious evolution. Perhaps the old folks can’t see it, or can’t envision it. Perhaps they are so tired of old religious systems that they through out the baby with the bath water. I think the younger generations will find a better way. Already, they are opening their minds beyond the old religious constructs and finding new ways of expressing their search for God. Many of the things about religion that nonbelievers hate are also being rejected by younger generations, but they are not giving up on God. They say ‘I’m spiritual, but not religious.’ (As are many in the middle generation.) They are more inclusive, more tolerant and more accepting. And they are learning how to encounter religious problems in more productive ways. That, in my opinion, is a step in the right religious direction, and indicates that religion is here to stay.
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
Ok, Liberator. As you wish. But if you ever want to have a conversation about the subject matter, we can PM and share scriptures. God bless.
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133
Why Are You Here?
by Believer ini'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.
as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.
as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.
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Believer
Another thing, Liberator. The idea that you must accept the whole Bible as the absolute truth or you’re not a Christian is a WT teaching. Folks who don’t even know what a Christian is! Paul didn’t teach that. He said the old law is obsolete and outdated. He chastised the Christians who tried to keep the law. He said your minds are blinded when you try to keep the law. (Somewhere in Corinthians where he talks about a veil.) Yeah, you DO need the entire bible to untwist yourself from WT teachings. But once you untwist, you are FREE! Free to find God on your own terms and many believers here have done. Jesus freed his followers from burdensome rules and laws. He said just keep these two commandments (you know what they are) and you have fulfilled everything. None of the prophets were called the word of God. Only Jesus. Jesus’ teachings are superior to all of the words of Moses and the prophets. So if you believe Jesus is the word of God, then believe him! And be free!