Posts by PioneerSchmioneer

543

Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

hello my friends,.

here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.

revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).

PioneerSchmioneer

A footnote to my last post:

The lastest theories of the Old Testament source materials now do away with "document" recreations and redraw the creation of the Hebrew text as N and S or I and J, meaning a composition of writings that weave oral stories from the northern kingdom/Israel and the sourthern kingdom/Judah into what we have today, instead of the varied JPED sources hypothesized by German Protestants from the 1800s. (R and D is actually from the 1990s.)

And I meant to write "Q source" not "Q theory," indicating that over the past 30 + years, scholars have grown to abandon the Q source theory, reflected in the latest NRSVue study edition from HarperOne that I mentioned.

543

Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

hello my friends,.

here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.

revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).

PioneerSchmioneer

Thanks Peacefulpete. Good info.

The J, E, P, D has largely been replaced by R and D these days with almost no layperson materials yet updated with this, even though this is now the norm for about 30 years or so in modern documentary studies.

What happened was after the Qumran scrolls were discovered, it became clear that there was clearly a redactor, but since the Masoretic theories were far more correct than the Christian methodologies that created the Document Hypothesis it was revised using Jewish critical studies (which were largely ignored).

While the new hypothesis recognized the "possibility" of J, E, and P, it notes that it is more likely that a school of redaction influenced by the Babylonian exile created everything outside of D. So everything is now divided into simply R and D, with R being made up of possibly many sources, but in the end under a central type of redactor of some sort, likely a school of scribes working over a generation, possibly under a great scholar or Jewish prophet.

The latest edition of the NRSV Updated Edition SBL Study Edition from HarperOne is the first new layperson book I've seen with anything close to some of this new data from the past few decades--except it only touches on the New Testament. It published (finally) that scholars no longer hold to the Q theory. It will take another 10 years before the last 30 years of scholary work finally trickles down to study Bibles (and who knows how long before it hits Wikipedia).

543

Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

hello my friends,.

here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.

revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).

PioneerSchmioneer

The northern branches of the Red Sea are reed marshes, and "migdal" is the word for a generic Egyptian fortress, not a city.

If this was historic, there were various ancient "migdals" throught the north where "reed seas" once existed. These could dry up overnight and flood in an instant due to regular weather and seismic activity.

543

Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

hello my friends,.

here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.

revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).

PioneerSchmioneer

The traditional rendering of "Red Sea" for where the Israelites crossed is not found in the Hebrew text. That wording is found only in the Greek Septuagint.

In Hebrew manuscripts the body of water that the Jews cross is called yam suph, which means "Sea of Reeds" or the "Reed Sea" which is how the Jewish Publication's NJPS translation renders it and the Interdenominational CEB (Common English Bible) translates it, and the footnote in the new NRSVue explains it.

Yam is Hebrew for "sea" and suph means "reeds." Suph is rendered as "reeds" (not "red") in Bibles, for example in the New World Translation at Exodus 2:3:

She...put the child in it and placed it among the reeds by the bank of the Nile River.--NWT, Italics added.

The identity of this body of water is therefore uncertain. If the story is describing something historical, it might be suggesting an event near the inlet of Lake Mazala in northeastern Egypt, or the Gulf of Suez, or perhpas the Gulf of Aqaba, or perhaps even Lakes El-Ballah, Lake Timsah or the Bitter Lakes.

But it would have to be an area full of reeds and not the Red Sea as we know it today.

The apostle Paul, Jewish sages, and moden scholars suggest that the value of the narrative lies in its allegorical truths, as did St. Basil in his writing On the Holy Spirit.

73

Did God know adam and eve would sin?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..

PioneerSchmioneer

Here's another way to think about it...

Let's say God DID "know" that Adam and Eve would sin--and created them anyway.

People choose to have children all the time, knowing full well that none of these children will be perfect, that these children will grow up to disobey. Does the fact that you will produce imperfect offspring--perhaps some even criminals despite the fact that you are the best of parents--stop you from having kids? No.

The argument is a straw man. It's idiotic. In real life it happens all the time. Does that mean that we kill the parents that have bad children or that they are to blame for their evil offspring, or that since their children go rogue that this means their parents don't exist? No.

Stupid question.

People who are mad at the Watchtower end up blaming the Bible instead of the Governing Body and the elders and their instructors from the cult. A cult serves you meatloaf, you associate meatloaf with the cult, you leave the cult and you go around telling people in the real world that meatload is evil--you even tell regular people outside the cult that they are stupid and "evil" for eating meatloaf. It's just meatloaf.

But it's not really your fault. You have been brainwashed by a cult to associate "meatloaf" with a cult.

The Watchtower makes you associate the Bible and religious things with its cult--so questions designed to make meatloaf--I mean religion and the Bible look stupid and evil are constantly made because the Governing Body has brainwashed members to make sure they don't get the blame. "Don't blame us. It's all in the meatloaf," the Governing Body told you, and you still believe that.

But meatloaf is just meatloaf. It doesn't do the same things to people outside of a cult. They eat it all the time. It's just not served to them by a cult. That's the difference.

(By the way...The Watchtower did not create "meatloaf.")

73

Did God know adam and eve would sin?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..

PioneerSchmioneer

I believe some of you may be reading into the Adam & Eve account something that was not there when the original author(s) composed it.

Remember, it was not written by Christians with the book of Revelation or any of the New Testament and any Christian theology in mind.

This means there was no concept of "Satan the Devil" when reading the narrative of Adam & Eve story. The serpent is not "Satan" any more than the talking donkey in Numbers chapter 22 is "Satan." In the Torah, a talking animal is a Hebrewism, a Jewish narrative device to indicate that a character is having a "crisis of consicence." It is very primative but it explains while neither Eve nor Balaam act as if it is anything out of the ordinary to encounter an animal speaking and then actually engage the animal in converstation as they would anyone else. It isn't meant to indicate demonic possession but a warning to the character due to their being at a decisive crossroads.

The Jews did not at the time of the writing of the Torah and to this day believe in Satan the Devil. So to claim that "God would know that Adam and Eve would sin" could possibly mean:

The story of Adam and Eve is indeed about sinning which would lead many to argue
That the narrative would not be fully comprehended until Augustine of Hippo (354-430 CE) first defined the story as "original sin"--something Judaism does not, and that
Opens a can of worms, that if God knew that Adam & Eve would "sin," this means that this was indeed "Original Sin" as defined by the Catholic Church, implying the God does indeed use that body--and that would be problematic for many.

The problem merely continues if one insists along this line of thought since it was the Roman Church that validated the doctrine which therefore insisted on the baptism of infants because of this view. Unless one breaks away from this understanding, as many have, one is left to choose sides, either with Catholicism or the view that the narrative was metaphorical:

The doctrine has long been the prerequisite for the Christian understanding of the meaning of Jesus’ Crucifixion and atonement and was especially promulgated by St. Augustine in the West. Despite its importance for understanding Jesus’ sacrifice, and as a motivation behind the practice of infant baptism in some churches, the doctrine of original sin has been minimized since the European Enlightenment. Indeed, the idea that salvation is necessary because of the universal stain of original sin is no longer accepted by a number of Christian sects and interpretations, especially among those Christians who consider the story of Adam and Eve to be less a fact and more a metaphor of the relation of God and humanity.--Original Sin: Britannica.com

543

Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

hello my friends,.

here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.

revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).

PioneerSchmioneer

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
--Philippians 2:12

St. Augustine wrote on the above text in Philippians explaining that 'if you really understood that God was the one working in you to produce your good works and that everything was therefore a grace, you would really tremble with fear.'--On Grace and Free Will, 21.

While he wasn't suggesting literal fear but instead awe of the salvation process, it did tie in with the verse at Luke 11:13b:

How much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!

Since the grace of salvation is only made possible by the life the Holy Spirit supplies working in each Christian to make them a "son" or child of God, it truly is an awe-inspiring concept.--Galatians 4:6.

____

Scripture quotations are taken from the RSV: Revised Standard Version Bible, Ignatius Edition, Copyright © 1965, 1966, 2006, Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America.

543

Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

hello my friends,.

here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.

revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).

PioneerSchmioneer

God is my witness that I tell the truth when I say that my deep feeling for you all comes from the heart of Christ Jesus himself. I pray that your love will keep on growing more and more, together with true knowledge and perfect judgment, so that you will be able to choose what is best. Then you will be free from all impurity and blame on the Day of Christ. Your lives will be filled with the truly good qualities which only Jesus Christ can produce, for the glory and praise of God.
–Philippians 1:8–11, GNT.

Paul’s letter to the Philippians began with a prayer, reminding those that he was serving that his ministry came from the love of Christ, a love he hoped would be found in them as well.

This was not some sentimentality or mere tender affection, but the type of self-sacrificing love that moved people to serve others. Because “the Day of Christ,” the Second Coming, should always be on the mind of a Christian, Paul knew it was important for them to know how “to choose what is best”as they lived their lives, “filled with the truly good qualities” that come from relying on the gospel of Jesus.

_______

2

Another Messiah in the News

by peacefulpete in

a news item making rounds today regards the famous chabad-lubavitch synagogue in brooklyn.

in short, the leader of the movement/sect was world famous rabbi menachem mendel schneerson.

schneerson passed away in 1994.....or did he?

PioneerSchmioneer

Actually, if memory serves, the whole Chabad movement believed or at least hoped he was the messiah, though the rabbi oft repeated no, at least when directly asked.

There were even many posters and signs plastered throughout the Orthodox neighborhoods claiming Schneerson was the messiah and where his upcoming speaking engagements would be held during the late 1980s and early '90s, which the rabbi did nothing to discourage.

Many of his followers believed he would never die, so when he did and there was a funeral, many who believed him to be the messiah could not accept his death.

Others went "full Jesus" on Chabad and began teaching he would rise in three days or had risen and was in hiding. But Chabad formally squashed all such teachings and the view that the messiah had come--or so they claimed.

The work of Chabad has been to build a bridge between Orthodox Judaism and modern Jewish life, but this latest event will unravel all the good done to show that leadership has not really cared to quiet this messianic movement in its ranks.

Chabad is the group that creates those large public Hanukkah menorahs throughout the USA. Someone has to sponsor them. It's not your mainstream synagogue, it's those folks... And they do it to try to make new members, something which is very "un-Jewish." So don't get too close or you might get handed some Chabad literature next holiday season.

543

Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

hello my friends,.

here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.

revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).

PioneerSchmioneer

Kosonen:

Why would you mention Hilter and the teaching of Papal infallibility together in the same post? I don't see the connection?

You are aware, for example, not everything a pope says or teaches is considered infallible and that in there have only been two such instances where there have been "ex cathedra" or "infallible" statements. They are made when the Catholic Church as a whole, all the people, from the least to the greatest, agree that a regular view or doctrine is to be viewed as an unchageable dogma.

Then a pope, speaking on behalf of the Catholic Church, makes the declaration "from the chair" (in Latin "ex cathedra") of his authority that "such and such" is the desire of the church, and therefore such a doctrine becomes dogma on behalf of the Church.

It happened in 1854 and then again in 1950, but only after years of much discussion with many Catholics and bishops over the matter at hand before the decision. It does not mean that a pope is infallible, but that the action of the Church at that moment via a pope is, that is, the entire Church in making a doctrine into dogma infallible.

Why make a connection between this and Hitler?