Posts by pomegranate

109

Matthew Makes Another Error

by JosephAlward in

the 1 chronicles author lists the descendents of david; some of these, in order, are jehoshaphat, jehoram, ahaziah, joash, amaziah, azariah, jotham, ahaz, hezekiah, manasseh (1 chronicles 3:10-13 niv).

the matthew author contradicts this genealogy; he leaves out the four consecutive descendents underlined above, and in their place puts uzziah, who he says is jehorams son.

(matthew 1:8-10 niv).

pomegranate

>>I would normally expect a more complete refutation of the point I made regarding the fossil record contradicting the Genesis account.<<

In order for you to claim you made a point you would have to present some evidence based on fact, ie like; palaeontologist Dr. So and So has found in this particular layer of sedimentary fossiliferous rock, somewhere around the Cambrian period, this, this and this, which totally undermines that that and that. Did you ever debate in school?

>>Your failure to engage in a debate is disappointing and I quite honestly can't be bothered dragging responses out of you.<<

You lack of point is why there can be no counterpoint.

The failure is yours, I believe.

PS. No need to respond, as it is clear your only objective is malignity and malevolence.

Merry Christmas

109

Matthew Makes Another Error

by JosephAlward in

the 1 chronicles author lists the descendents of david; some of these, in order, are jehoshaphat, jehoram, ahaziah, joash, amaziah, azariah, jotham, ahaz, hezekiah, manasseh (1 chronicles 3:10-13 niv).

the matthew author contradicts this genealogy; he leaves out the four consecutive descendents underlined above, and in their place puts uzziah, who he says is jehorams son.

(matthew 1:8-10 niv).

pomegranate

>>Pom, you're wearing to talk to as I find you have an unchristian attitude...<<

I'll let God judge me. You can sit down.

>>Look at those pretty little quotes around the word victim. Are you implying what I think you are?<<

No implication. What you see is what I meant.

>>What religious denomination are you now?<<

What difference would it make?

>>Unreformed Mysogynist?

misogynist, you spelled it wrong. Down to name calling now are we?

>>As for the creation account in the Bible being wrong, well, answer the above question.<<

Done.

>>If you think what I think you think, your mysogyny will be far more a pressing subject. I hope I'm wrong, by the way.<<

Spelled it wrong again. You should be careful with the big words you can't spell. They reveal a lot about you.

>>Until then, well, the order things were created in is not consistant with fossil evidence. That's one, there's loads, but your answer will be illuminating.<<

You are incorrect.

Merry Christmas.

109

Matthew Makes Another Error

by JosephAlward in

the 1 chronicles author lists the descendents of david; some of these, in order, are jehoshaphat, jehoram, ahaziah, joash, amaziah, azariah, jotham, ahaz, hezekiah, manasseh (1 chronicles 3:10-13 niv).

the matthew author contradicts this genealogy; he leaves out the four consecutive descendents underlined above, and in their place puts uzziah, who he says is jehorams son.

(matthew 1:8-10 niv).

pomegranate

>>I love the fact, on the thread about why god permits evil, you happily admit that some of what you believe is not purely scriptual, but based on your opinion of the correlation between scirpture and the world as you see it. You then say "all you have given me is your opinions, ALL opinions, not one shread of evidence".

Well, I suppose we have BOTH done that, so why is it wrong for me and not for you?<<

You called your position "evidence" now didn't you? Yes you did. And I quote:

Don't you find that ALL the evidence points to the Bible NOT being literal?

I clearly qualified my position and called mine reasoning. That's why your wrong, because you lie about evidence you do not have.

>>You nicely ignore the point I made about you accusing me of being a blasphmous rape victim being rather non-Christian in its display of fruits, so I'll ignore the switch and bait you make.<<

One, calling God an accessory to child rape is blashpemy, two I said my "gut feeling" (there was no accusation) because you seem bent and bitter in a sexually perverted way. That is often the case with "victims." If not, my apologies.

>>You want proof? The creation account is a joke, unsupported by science,<<

Show your "science" Bill Nye. I'm all ears, errr eyes.

>>Even IF the parents told the kids that they would kill them if they played on the swing before they played on the swing, and make sure all their children died, it STILL wouldn't be reasonable!!<<

Rom 5:20-21
20 The law [Do not eat] was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

>>THAT'S why the Bible is obviously symbolic. The minute you take it literally, you hit logical brick walls. It's so obvious it is symbolic most people assume it.<<

I believe you wouldn't accept it even if it were the truth.

>>Apologies for being too damn pretty for words<<

That's called Narcissism.

>>I look male to me... I think I might start a vote on it though.<<

Knock yourself out.

>>People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...<<

Put down your rocks

57

Why is there evil

by d0rkyd00d in

don't know if this has been touched on before, but where did evil originate?

yes, some may answer satan.

but think about this: god created all things, and god is perfect.

pomegranate

Isa 26:10-11
10 Though grace is shown to the wicked,
they do not learn righteousness;
even in a land of uprightness they go on doing evil
and regard not the majesty of the LORD.

Let's do a FULL light and dark replacement for the above text:

'Though "LIGHT" is shown to the "dark", they do not learn "light"; even in a land of "light" they go on doing "dark" and regard not the majesty of "LIGHT."'

Jesus confirms that.

John 3:19-20
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Peter emphasises the blatant defiance:

2 Peter 2:13-14
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning;

1 Thess 5:4-5
4 But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

109

Matthew Makes Another Error

by JosephAlward in

the 1 chronicles author lists the descendents of david; some of these, in order, are jehoshaphat, jehoram, ahaziah, joash, amaziah, azariah, jotham, ahaz, hezekiah, manasseh (1 chronicles 3:10-13 niv).

the matthew author contradicts this genealogy; he leaves out the four consecutive descendents underlined above, and in their place puts uzziah, who he says is jehorams son.

(matthew 1:8-10 niv).

pomegranate

>>Judge a tree by its fruits, eh?<<

Even better, judge a tree by its root.

Rom 11:16
if the root is holy, so are the branches.

In contrast if the root is defiled, so are the branches. If the fruit is bad, the branches are bad, the root is bad. It all starts out at the root, Adam and Eve.

>>>If you don't believe those that have never lived are raised up again, then god is responsible, in such an instance as outlined above, for utterly obliterating such a child.<<

If you don't believe that God can raise them up, how can you believe that God put them down? You can't have one without the other, as both truths come from the same book.

>>Don't you find that ALL the evidence points to the Bible NOT being literal?<<

No, because all you have given me is your opinions, ALL opinions, not one shread of evidence. If God made the root good, and someone else defiled the root causing the whole tree to be bad, it is up to the Life Giver of the root to do with the defiled tree as He sees fit, whether temper tantrum branches of the defiled tree like you, like it or not.

That makes people like you powerless. That makes people like you unsettled to know they have absolutely no control. You are supported by the root, that root is rotten.

Rom 11:18
You do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Whatever that root is, good or rotten, so is it's children. You are rotten.

>>Say your parents told you not to play on the swing. When you did, they threw you out of the house, and told you that you were going to die AND that this genetic infection would be passed to your unborn children. Is that reasonable?<<

You see, it's people like you that get things BACKWARDS and pretend they know what their talking about, that makes them look foolish.

The story would go like this. "Don't play on the swing or you will die."

Forewarned of impending danger. That's what a loving parent would do.

But if you read your rendering above, the death sentence was told AFTER the offense, so it was a big unjust surprise AFTER THE FACT. That would be unfair, and YOU are unfair for portaying that fact as an injustice by your inaccurate portrayal of the truth.

Re-read your Bible. You have it WRONG. Again.

>>but you're the umpteenth person whose thought that I am a girl...<<

If that's your real photo, I suggest you grow a beard, err somethin.

Merry Christmas.

57

Why is there evil

by d0rkyd00d in

don't know if this has been touched on before, but where did evil originate?

yes, some may answer satan.

but think about this: god created all things, and god is perfect.

pomegranate

John 3:19-21
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

57

Why is there evil

by d0rkyd00d in

don't know if this has been touched on before, but where did evil originate?

yes, some may answer satan.

but think about this: god created all things, and god is perfect.

pomegranate

Context.

Eph 5:8-14
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for it is light that makes everything visible.

Paul is talking about the ones God chose out of the dark, right?

I believe the KJ may be a little off on their rendering. the above is the NIV. Comparing both to the word for word Greek, I believe the NIV rendering is better. It is pretty easy to see. Want me to do a word for word English to Greek??

57

Why is there evil

by d0rkyd00d in

don't know if this has been touched on before, but where did evil originate?

yes, some may answer satan.

but think about this: god created all things, and god is perfect.

pomegranate

>>My question to you pom is where does the Bible mention ANYTHING about the troubles in heaven being represented through animals? I'm not saying it's a bad theory, but I don't know where you made the connection using scriptures.<<

Scriptures per say, hardcore SEE!! LOOK LOOK!!

There is NOTHING I could show DIRECTLY in then Bible that gives me my understanding. It's more reasoning from between the Bible's words and what I see around me now in creation.

The earth's "cycles" as they are right now have to be just the way God created them in Eden. For instance, the nitrogen cycle (Life/Death.) The earth (life) THRIVES on this principle of biology. The earth (life) could NOT exist without this FOUNDATIONAL principle of the death of one thing, giving life to another. The two F's. Food and fertilizer. Both represent death and decay. Both give life to another living thing.

It's also another reason why evolution can't be true. The nitrogen cycle stops it from being true. Food/fertilizer. They are BOTH life previous. Without food/fertilizer (previous life), there is no after life, the cycle stops. Living things need food. Food is previous living things dead on ALL levels, even the molecular. So, where did the first food come from?

One of my premises for the dinosaurs was God using them as a huge BIOLOGICAL nitrogen cycle jumpstart. Huge massive bodies consuming large quantities of vegetation with voracious appetites, crapping these huge piles of bilogical wastes only to break down biologically and become food for the following vegetative generations...then they too, the dinosaurs with their massive muscular bodies, eliminated quickly in a mysterious destruction only to decay into the earth's crust as a motherlode of subsequent food and fertilizer and oil and, well a grab bag of wonderful stuff for the planet created on a foundation of death.

Follow?? Am I going to deep???

I think you can see that the depths of this type of open discussion and free thinking are a very very wide open door. I found the open door to be very good.

Mark 12:27
27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living.

See...this always bothered me. WHY? Why would a LIVING God, the God of the living, create ANYTHING...ANYTHING AT ALL to die. I mean, even the smallest molecular cell in all it's vast complexity, to be made only to evetually die??? Why did this God of the living create this way? Something is wrong. Very very wrong...

>>You cannot prove a fact. You can only prove your perception of truth. Prove the fact God exists; to be honest, you can't, which is why the "fact" of God existing will never be strong. Have i gone far enough off on a tangent here? :-)<<

Not bad!! Actually, I believe that train of thought to be fairly accurate. I can't prove God exists, that's His job. Weak people like me need faith.

************************************8
>>When the light shines in the darkness, it's no longer darkness.<<

Darkness is destroyed by light. Darkness has no power over light. Rather the light over powers the darkness.

>>If the Light will do away with Darkness completely, then Darkness will be Light.<<

Darkness will be done away with by the light. They cannot be "pals."

2 Cor 6:14-15
Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

>>The Darkness will always be where the Light doesn't or won't shine.<<

Soon the light will shine in every corner and expose the darkness and those that like to frolic in it's cover.

Job 12:22
22 He reveals the deep things of darkness
and brings deep shadows into the light.

Dan 2:22
22 He reveals deep and hidden things;
he knows what lies in darkness,
and light dwells with him.

Eph 5:10-14
11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for it is light that makes everything visible.

>>If there is ever a point when the Darkness is done away with by the Light shining there, it won't be Darkness anymore. Does that mean you believe in Universal salvation?<<

No.

Isa 26:10-11
10 Though grace is shown to the wicked,
they do not learn righteousness;
even in a land of uprightness they go on doing evil
and regard not the majesty of the LORD.
11 O LORD, your hand is lifted high,
but they do not see it.
Let them see your zeal for your people and be put to shame;
let the fire reserved for your enemies consume them.

Isa 26:14
14 They are now dead, they live no more;
those departed spirits do not rise.
You punished them and brought them to ruin;
you wiped out all memory of them.

I believe the God of the Bible is not a God of universal salvation.

57

Why is there evil

by d0rkyd00d in

don't know if this has been touched on before, but where did evil originate?

yes, some may answer satan.

but think about this: god created all things, and god is perfect.

pomegranate

>>Has anyone ever considered that so called "evil" is necessary?<<

Probably Satan. That's why he created it.

>>Without the "negative" how would we know the "positive" in its truest sense?<<

God would tell us.

>>Would we appreciate anything?<

Let's talk about love and young children. Do they understand hate, the kind that crashes airplanes into buildings? No they don't. Heck, most adults would admit their own lack of understanding in that regard.

The point is, do children need to know and understand HATE in order to FEEL LOVE? TO KNOW LOVE? TO UNDERSTAND LOVE? No they don't.

LOVE needs no contrasting darkness in order for it to be known that LOVE IS GOOD. LOVE comes first, because LOVE WAS FIRST.

>>If every day was sunny, every meal was perfect, every person said perfect things at the perfect time...etc. I believe we would not appreciate any of it, neither would we make progress.<<

I believe all the things you said above are not "evil." We are talking about EVIL not personal differences between GOOD things. For instance, a meal that was not perfect could still be not perfect and NOT be evil. AS a matter of fact, the meal would be rather good because it would certainly sustain life. As far as rainy days go, some people LIKE THEM, and they are not evil because vegetation needs water.

>>We have to fail to learn sometimes, we have to argue to come to agreement, we have to see death to appreciate life, feel pain to understand the beauty of health and to protect our bodies.<<

Now your getting somewhere..."we have to see death to appreciate life"

Within the spirit realm, God initially never created the angelic realm with the POTENTIAL to die. So, with a creature like Satan, he thought his escapades of EVIL could go unanswered.

On to God's next creation. Mankind. He began this creation CREATED with the potential to DIE. In order for a God who now became JUST to make that particualr creation UNDERSTAND death, THEY HAD TO SEE DEATH in order to appreciate life.

Vegetation, though inanimate, when alive is beautiful. When it dies, it turns brown and ugly, and disappers.

Animals. The animals died. Adam and Eve were put into a creation that DIED all around them. The plants died. The animals DIED TOO. In order for other living things to live, something had to die. Animals killed each other.

But......even with death ALL around Adam and Eve, and the sentence for disobedience to a simple LAW was they would have the same destiny as the plants and animals, EVIL was SO CORRUPTING, that it made appreciation of LIFE and the LIFE GIVER disappear.

>>On a very basic level, we might have relationships and perhaps not appreciate those around us, yet in losing them we realise poignantly their value. We learn to appreciate others.<<

That is called wisdom. Finally "knowing" what it really is all about to be in a world of Good (God) and Evil (Satan).

One of them has to go.

>>There would be no such word as "day" if there were no "night".<<

Light does not need darkness. Darkness needs light. Light comes first. As a matter of fact, WITHOUT light, there is no darkness.

God will wipe out the NIGHT. AS the "night" was the symbol of Satan and his evil.

Then "light" will then become the only thing with real meaning to all creation...God is light:

Rev 22:5
5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

I believe the creation of this old physical heavens and earth were temporary. We were placed here either alive in these "tents" or fallen asleep in death until the issue of Good and Bad can be finalized.

57

Why is there evil

by d0rkyd00d in

don't know if this has been touched on before, but where did evil originate?

yes, some may answer satan.

but think about this: god created all things, and god is perfect.

pomegranate

>>>Appreciate your offer to jump into the fray here, Pom, but I'm afraid your Bible-based worldview makes me think that I've better use for my time right now. I've posted on dozens of other discussions here on this board, but when the basis for the discussion requires that one literally believe in a mythological world of gods and demons and Gardens of Eden, I find that that was a worldview I long ago left behind and simply cannot return to. Logic and reasoning really have nothing to do with this discussion, I'm afraid.<<

Then what was your purpose in posting, just to interject your disagreement without basis? I mean, someone with all this valuable time that you have better use for, it sounds kind of hypocritical.

>>To illustrate my thinking on your debate here: It might be lots of fun to speculate about how Santa Claus gets all those presents in that sleigh, and how the reindeer really fly, and how does 'ol Santa get them distributed worldwide in just one night; and to base that discussion on the words in the poem "The Night Before Christmas." But truthfully, it's all sort of meaningless.<<

With Santa yes. With life and death no. Pretty flimsy foundation I might add.

>>But hey, good luck in the discussion. And I do believe that the question you're debating is a worthy one. Maybe someone could also tell us how Santa feels about it, as they understand from being filled with Santa-spirit and having that personal relationship with Santa.<<

Merry Christmas