Good things happen. Bad things happen.
Good things are created. Bad things are created.
Nothing happens without some FORCE behind it.
That's what I believe.
pomegranate
JoinedPosts by pomegranate
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44
Why has God Permitted Wickedness?
by hillary_step inyes, i know what the wts teaches....but what do you believe?.
if god exists why is there is so much suffering both among humans and even more so among his creation, where all animals must, deceive then eat one another to survive?
if he does not exist why is there is so much suffering both among humans and even more so among nature where all animals must eat one another to survive?
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Why has God Permitted Wickedness?
by hillary_step inyes, i know what the wts teaches....but what do you believe?.
if god exists why is there is so much suffering both among humans and even more so among his creation, where all animals must, deceive then eat one another to survive?
if he does not exist why is there is so much suffering both among humans and even more so among nature where all animals must eat one another to survive?
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pomegranate
As I asked: So what drew attention to God and things eternal before pain and negative emotions?
What about angels and demons? How is attention drawn to God and things eternal with beings who experience no physical pain? Besides, spirit creatures can SEE God, isn't that enough to draw attention to God and the eternal for them? Surely it is.
Why would God create us with pain and suffering, and to boot, not let us SEE him, all the while the spirit creatures in heaven do not feel physical pain and can SEE God? Sound fair to you?
What is your logical explaination for this seemingly bent scales of justice between to created beings of God? Heck, even just NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE GOD in itself is a very OBVIOUS tilting of the scales. Who has an advantage? The one who can FULLY see, or the one who was created partially blind? What's up with that?
Isn't SEEING God a better way to draw attention to Himself and things eternal rather than creating a being infllicted with life long torment (along with some good).
So why the pain for US? We were created with PAIN right from the beginning before sin. Our whole nervous system is a wiring for PAIN (Bad) and stimulation (Good). Our whole emotional system is the same way. God had to create that BAD in us inorder for us to KNOW HIM? That's very odd logic to me.
God created the body with good and bad CREATED IN IT. And yet, God called it VERY GOOD.
I believe we were created in a physical environment of "good and bad" because that was the very environment God was in in heaven spiritually with the evil created onslaught of Satan and his demons.
Edited by - pomegranate on 12 September 2002 7:28:57
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Why has God Permitted Wickedness?
by hillary_step inyes, i know what the wts teaches....but what do you believe?.
if god exists why is there is so much suffering both among humans and even more so among his creation, where all animals must, deceive then eat one another to survive?
if he does not exist why is there is so much suffering both among humans and even more so among nature where all animals must eat one another to survive?
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pomegranate
>>Try this: pain and negative emotions are absolutely essential to draw our attention to God and things eternal.<<
So what drew attention to God and things eternal before pain and negative emotions?
Are you saying pain and negative emotions have always been and always will be, just so they can draw attention to God and things eternal?
typo
Edited by - pomegranate on 11 September 2002 22:59:5
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WHAT KEEPS YOU HERE?
by plmkrzy ineither surfing the net using key words jehovah" .
or someone we know told us about it.
i found this place after logging on to watchers of the watch tower.
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pomegranate
Gravity.
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44
Why has God Permitted Wickedness?
by hillary_step inyes, i know what the wts teaches....but what do you believe?.
if god exists why is there is so much suffering both among humans and even more so among his creation, where all animals must, deceive then eat one another to survive?
if he does not exist why is there is so much suffering both among humans and even more so among nature where all animals must eat one another to survive?
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pomegranate
I believe all the physical creation is truly in image and likeness of the condition of God and of heaven.
If wild animals were created on earth, there are wild animals (demons) loose in heaven.
If there were "domestic" animals and pets on earth, there would be "domestics" in heaven. (angels)
If God created things that can bug us (insects), there are things in heaven that bug Him. (demons)
If we were created with a sense of pain, God must be also be in and sense pain.
If we were created to die, a piece of God would have to die too.
I believe the time gone by was to build LAW, implement the LAW, fulfill the LAW, and bring the LAW into heaven,
a place where there never was any LAW, so LAW can be applied to Satan and his demons, being who NEVER knew
or had to obey any LAW.
Are far as the length of time goes: Now that the tree of good and bad is full grown (which took time), there must be the wait for the fruit to become ripe, a time that only the True Arborist can know. Once the fruit is truly ripe, then there is the harvest.That's what I believe.
Edited by - pomegranate on 10 September 2002 7:34:10
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Tennessee Aposta-meetup a success
by CC Ryder inhey everyone!
tink and i attended our first apostate meetup here in tn.
it was absolutely great.
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pomegranate
Great pics CC!!
Yo Bill!! Razor broke er sumthin??
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Tennessee Aposta-meetup a success
by CC Ryder inhey everyone!
tink and i attended our first apostate meetup here in tn.
it was absolutely great.
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pomegranate
What?!?!?! No photos????
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pomegranate
God will judge who has TRULY BELIEVED in righteousness, because some will be believing falsely, and that is something only God will judge, of which ALL THINGS will be revealed in the end.
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pomegranate
>>>>I and others on this thread have cited a large number of scriptures that demonstrate, by any honest reading of them, that it is possible to know that one has salvation.<<
It seems to me all I have seen is scriptures that hold out the HOPE of being saved, not that one is saved before it happens. As Paul stated so simply, "IN THIS HOPE we were saved." Hope depicts something in the future that is yet to be, not something in the present that already is.
As I have asked you before, if you have what everyone else is hoping for, where is your hope? As Paul said, if you have it already, then there is no hope, because who hopes for what they already have?
I don't have it, but I hope for it, and wait for it patiently. You supposedly have it already, so what are you hoping for? I do not understand your belief in CONTEXT with what Paul is saying as he is surely talking about this very thing we are discussing.
>>It's not a grandiose claim, it's a scriptural claim. You, on the other hand, have arrogantly falsified scripture repeatedly to attempt to nullify the promises in the scriptures we have shown you.<<
We? I beleive you are the only one thus far claiming the position of honor, that being already saved with eternal life, before the King actually gives it out. I do not nullify any promise by Jesus, I wait for him to deliver it. Of which I have HOPE. Of which scripture is plain, that the undeserved reward is given out at the END, not in the middle.
>>Can I prove to you that I have accepted those promises? Of course not. Nor do I have to.<<
It has NOTHING to do with you proving your accepting them, it has to do with you proving that it has even been offered to you and you are IN POSSESSION OF IT. Scriptually, if you did have it, you would have stoppped sinning and be doing everything right, and you would be showing all due respect EVEN TO AN STAUNCH UNBELIEVER (of which I am not). But, by your own words, you are still a sinner, which to me disqualifies your claim, and by your very own words, you show me NO RESPECT, which also scriptually disqualifies your claim .
I believe no one can accept that which has not been offered yet. Yes the promise is there, I do not deny it. I know it will be offered to some who are chosen in a future time, but I will never be so presumptous that I have it already, because I don't.
>>My salvation is not your concern, but you have attempted to make it your concern by denying that the promises plainly made in the Bible are not valid, and by denying that it is possible that I could have been saved<<
1. Your salvation is my concern, I hope you attain it. 2. I do not deny any promise made to those God chooses to give salvation to. 3. In my understanding, I do deny that anyone is saved already, before God has actually done it. Because if you have it already, your hope is lost.
I hope I am saved, and wish it were true that I was saved already.
You claim you are saved already, and are glad you are not like the pomegranate, who is ONLY hoping to be saved.I believe the contrast in our beliefs are as far apart as the Pharisee and the tax collector.
>>Sounds like the JW's have trained you well.<<
My beliefs are nothing like JW's, and your insults are getting old.
>>Jesus offers much more. He expects our faithful service, but promises great rewards.<<
I believe Jesus expects nothing from me. How can he? I do nothing good. I am a born sinner bound in corruption. Sin begets sin, so there is nothing I can do besides that, sin. My works are of no use to him, so if there is to be a saving of the pomegranate, it will not be because of faithful service, because I cannot faithfully serve, I am a corrupted vessel. A sinner like me, cannot be faithful on his own. Grace is an undserved gift. I believe the reward is given NOT because it is due for faithful service, the reward is given because IT ISN'T due for ANYTHING. It is given out of God's good will and pleasure. Because He darn well feels like doing it. That's what I believe.
>>He says we can be confident of those rewards.<<
I believe I can be confident in those rewards, and yet NOT have received them. I don't have to have the undeserved gift in my POSSESSION in order to put my faith and confidence in it. Actually, I believe your understanding even undermines faith. "Faith is being sure of what we HOPE FOR and certain of what we do not see."
I will add my understandings to this in brackets:
"Faith is being sure of what we HOPE FOR [Being saved for eternal life] and certain of what we do not see. [Father and Jesus]"
If you have the undeserved gift already, you no longer have any need for the faith of being sure in the hope, as you already have what the hope is for and have seen the unseen already.
1 Peter 1:13-14
Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed.I do believe Christ has not yet been revealed, so the grace of being saved cannot have been given out yet, because scripture says it is to be given out when Christ is to be revealed.
Salvation is ONLY A HOPE, at least that is what it is for me and the way I believe.
>>While we should not seek the honor of men, we should not be afraid to claim what God promises, either. Otherwise, we might be viewed like the man who hid his talents rather than investing them.<<
How can I be seeking the honor of other men when I feel I am a toilet cleaning janitor and my other job is shoe shine boy? Surely, someone who is saved by God deserves more honor than I could ever imagine. I am confident of one thing, I clean a mean toilet bowl, and I shine a killer shoe. But I will never assume that which hasn't been given to me. I prefer to inherit rather than assume. An inheritance is lawfully given. An assumption is illegally taking. That's what I believe.
>>He made the sacrifice to pay for my sins. I have done nothing to deserve salvation. All I have done is to accept the gift He offered. But it would be disrespectful for me to accept His gift and then doubt whether He had actually given it, would it not?<<
1 Peter 1:13b, "...set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed."
My hope is firmly in place. Is yours?
Edited by - pomegranate on 4 September 2002 15:23:13
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pomegranate
You are the one claiming and boasting and exalting yourself "I'm saved! I'm saved!" You are the one giving yourself honor.
Soooo...You are the one that has the burden of proof, since you are the one making the grandiose claim. I have NO PROBLEM with you making that claim, it is your right as a man with a mouth.
I make no such claim for myself, so I have nothing to prove. I willingly sit at the back as a good for nothing toilet cleaing janitor until I am TOLD to sit up front. Until then, pomegranate is shoe shine boy.
Luke 14:8-11
8 "When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. 9 If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, 'Give this man your seat.' Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. 10 But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, 'Friend, move up to a better place.' Then you will be honored in the presence of all your fellow guests. 11 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."You are already taking the place of honor are you not?
How can you move up to a better place if you are already there?