it's been about 10 years since i posted here.
a lot's happened of course.
but here's where i'm at right now.. i was never (to my knowledge) disfellowshipped.
Don't let the situation force you into anything.
Just be firm and don't let your daughter be alone with "Any" JWs, and keep the family relationship intact---according to the rules YOU SET.
If the money your mother sends you is an issue----then just send it back and say; No thanks, we are OK,
The key is to be firm and KIND.
will we close down again?
will we be masked forever?
will we be required to get vaccinated over and over again?
A year from now they will be saying we never said you had to take the vaccine.
And we did warn you it was a Risk taking it! ☠
what is it about some jws that they can't see the flip-flops of the wt's changing doctrine?.
some of the flip-flops involved the death of many of it's members, and it was not even biblical based.
yet for some reason they can't seem to grasp the significance of the matter.
What is it about some JWs that they can't see the flip-flops of the WT's CHANGING DOCTRINE?
Some of the Flip-flops involved the death of many of it's members, and it was not even Biblical based. Yet for some reason they can't seem to grasp the significance of the matter.
This can be really frustrating when it involves someone you love like a parent, a husband, wife, or children.
Here is an example from reddit;
A little backstory; I had always been perceived as an "exemplary" JW, I had all the "privileges" a young JW man could have; MS, Pioneer, running the sound system, I even gave public talks in other congregations, which was pretty rate for a MS.
But at the same time, my family and close friends knew a different side of me. I was always a little mentally rebellious. If a doctrine didn't make sense to me, I would say so, and explain why. Or if a CO came around spouting some nonsense rule he made up, I would show him from the publications where he was wrong, which got me counseled more than once.
When I gave public talks in other congregations, I always carried with me, right in my folder under my talk outline, a print-out of a watchtower article saying that it was improper and pharisaical to try to force someone to wear a plain white shirt when giving a talk, because I always wore a colored shirt in a pretty conservative area. (Sadly, I never got to rub that in anyone's face.)
In short, I was outspoken and loved a good argument, and didn't back down easily.
My father, on the other hand, was a life-long, second-generation JW, and was the very model of a company man. He became an elder in his early 30s, and he went along with everything anyone said, as long as they were "higher-ranking" than him, because he viewed that as loyalty.
Some rando CO comes into town and tells us to stop working rural territories and focus on the main town only? Sure, dad would go along with that, in spite of every article I could show him proving that the branch didn't want us to do that. "Maybe the CO has a secret letter from the branch he hasn't shown us" dad would eventually say, and I would roll my eyes, exasperated.
Anyway, one day, as I was on my way to being mentally out of the cult, he called me up to discuss some of my "doubts", and we got into it for a few hours. We argued about all the same old stuff again, just like we had many times over the years.
But then I threw something at him that we had never talked about; the flip-flopping about organ transplants. In case you don't know, JWs were fine with organ transplants until the mid 60s. Then from the mid-to-late 60s until the early 80s, JWs considered organ transplants to be a form of cannibalism, and therefore wouldn't allow them. T
hen in the 80s, they were allowed again. For those 15 or so years, some JWs surely died for lack of an organ transplant, when they apparently didn't need to, since they flipped right back to being acceptable again in the 80s. So my question was, who is responsible for their deaths; god who lied to us about his feelings on organ transplants, or men, who made up a doctrine that god had to "correct" back to the right thing?
He didn't have an answer, and kind of floundered, but he seemed to be landing on the side of men getting it wrong for a few years, and then god stepping in to correct it, until I reminded him that it was correct in the first place. Why would god have allowed men to introduce a wrong doctrine that got JWs killed? He backtracked, and then floundered again.
So I then asked my dad why there were multiple examples of flip-flopping doctrines like that. ("Who are the Superior authorities" is another example where they had one belief, changed it, and then changed it again back to their original belief.) He tried the classic "light getting brighter" defense, but I didn't let that fly.
I eventually pinned him down. There are only two possibilities; All JWs doctrines are created by god, and he sometimes lies to us about what he wants us to believe, thus resulting in doctrines flip-flopping, or at least some JW doctrines are made by men, who are essentially just making it up and getting it wrong.
He tried to weasel out of that dilemma for quite a while, but I was determined to get him to pick one of those choices.
When he finally was forced to think it through and make a choice, he chose that god sometimes lies. I was flabbergasted. I remember literally yelling into the phone "No! What?! NO!" My wife came in to make sure everything was all right at that point, because I sounded so distressed. I just couldn't believe dad would go that far, and even directly against the bible, just to avoid blaming men.
Dad's explanation was that god lies, but only to protect us. He said that in the case of the "Superior authorities", maybe god caused them to flip-flop certain ways during certain times in history to maintain political neutrality. Maybe the organ donation ban protected JWs from a hidden medical danger. (I pointed out that his favorite author, Isaac Asimov died from an organ transplant that carried AIDS after the JW ban had been lifted, so that was a pretty ineffectual ban if it ended right before the AIDS threat showed up.)
His basic thesis was the classic "god works in mysterious ways" trope, which I pointed out to him that he was now just parroting "false religion's" defense of things that their beliefs can't explain, but that didn't phase him.
I also pointed out that the bible explicitly says "god CANNOT lie", but he said it wasn't "really lying, because he was protecting us". I pointed out that's not the problem. The problem is that if god can lie at all, then that means that you can't trust anything he ever says again. He's all powerful, he can cover up or manipulate the evidence of any lie he wants, even erasing it from your brain if he wants to. The very fact that he CAN lie, means that you can't ever trust him again.
He never changed his mind. In his view, it's better to accept a lying god than it is to accept that his beliefs have been manufactured by men.
It was a huge blow to my estimation of my father's intellectual honesty, and it made me realize just how deeply brainwashed he is.
On the plus side, when I told my wife that whole story, she was still mentally in, and that definitely helped to push her more toward being mentally out, so it did help to save the person I most wanted to save.
EDIT: This was all several years ago, my wife and I are now both completely out of the cult, and we've never been happier.
will we close down again?
will we be masked forever?
will we be required to get vaccinated over and over again?
Medical Data is now leaking to the masses. It seems that they are finding out that the vaccines DO NOT give permanent protection from Covid or from infecting Vaccinated and Non-Vaccinated people. In fact after a few months, the vaccines will not offer that protection anymore.
Now they are leaking information that close to 80% of the people that died of Covid were OBESE.
The other 19% had a medical condition or were just too old and had a compromised immune system.
It is more probable, that if a person watches and cares for his health, the chances of Surviving Covid are better than taking the vaccine.
Taking the vaccine world-wide creates a possibility of the Virus evolving into a stronger strain that will start killing even the healthy and there won't be a cure. It will turn into a full blown REAL pandemic.
Many doctors know this but are afraid to saying something because to the current woke culture.
this weeks meeting part.
boy did they miss it while a hug is nice a scripture will not mow the yard, fix a flat, or pay the bills.
My parents did not restrict their help to just JW's either as most of the very few who do help do. My parents read a news article about a homeless couple whose three year old daughter had died and they could not afford a proper funeral. My parents paid the entire cost of final preparation and the services. Their only condition of doing so was that it not be revealed WHO had helped. The records of cash flow my father kept are how I found out.
You had some GREAT PARENTS ----Fedup👍👍
A good reminder that GOOD PEOPLE can be found everywhere---including in the WT.
....and still no big 'a'.
armageddon.. it was 15 years ago dubland was in lala dream-like almost trance-like state hanging on the notion the big 'a' was imminent.. it was ironic.
ironic at that time was when.... i was starting my long waking-up process.
It was summer 2006 just a little over that ridiculous generation change in Nov1995 which I just could never stomach.
I was talking to one of my older stepbrothers. He is now in the process of waking up. The Pandemic has helped him wake up. But even though he knew something was not right when they started changing the generation doctrine, he still stayed in till now. That's about 26 years of lost life. And he is absolutely mad that he didn't listen to his conscience back in 1995.
I think most jws knew something was not right back in 1995, but they still stayed in, confused and not knowing what the hell was going on.
I was about 6 years old at the time, so by the time I was about 12, there was tons of information available on why the bible was not inspired of God. So I never bought into the ideas that the WT was God's Organization.
I was the only one who never got baptized. I really enjoy talking to my family that is waking up. They tell me all the feelings and reasons why they stayed in so long.
Today the majority of jws my age and under are no longer mentally enslaved to the Watchtower. They are just waiting for their parents to die so they can leave completely. And they are making sure that their kids will never be enslaved to the Watchtower.
The generation has finally arrived of those who will no longer be enslaved to this Religious cult.
will we close down again?
will we be masked forever?
will we be required to get vaccinated over and over again?
What happened to herd immunity?
DeSantis had a conference yesterday and he mentioned how they now have 80% vaccinated population, but people are still getting Covid. He spoke to some people in Stanford and Harvard who are studying Covid's transmission, and now they are finding out that the Vaccine does not create Herd Immunity. And It does not seem to stop the spread permanently----just for about 3 months. .
If it does stop the spread, and protects the recipient, it will probably only stop it for about 3 months. They say this because new data and information is coming in that people who have been vaccinated are Catching Covid, and the virus is flaring up in cities where most are vaccinated.
He gave the example of Israel who is one of the most vaccinated Countries in the World, and now they are having HUGE SURGES of Covid infecting Vaccinated People.
The only thing that the Vaccine seems to be doing for a specific time of 3 months is lessening the chance of getting real sick and dying for the elderly and those who are obese and have health problems.
The concern now is what will happen this coming winter when most people are vulnerable to respiratory disease???? Considering that the vaccines only seem to be strong against Covid for about 3 months?
this is a confidential letter for all full time servants like cos, regular pioneers, bethel and branch workers so please don't tell anyone about this.. reminder 20,000 jws have died of covid and 99% of those who died or were hospitalized in the united states branch territory were not vaccinated, so whose fault is that???.
my question, how did they get the information that all these 20,000 jws were not vaccinated?.
hint; if you want to continue to share in spiritual privileges--------------------get vaccinated.
This is a Confidential letter for all full time servants like COs, Regular Pioneers, Bethel and Branch workers so please don't tell anyone about this.
Reminder 20,000 JWs have died of Covid and 99% of those who died or were hospitalized in the United States Branch territory were NOT vaccinated, SO WHOSE FAULT IS THAT???
My question, how did they get the information that all these 20,000 JWs WERE NOT VACCINATED?
HINT; If you want to continue to share in Spiritual Privileges--------------------GET VACCINATED.
Other wise you might not be allowed to share in Door to Door field service, Bethel, CO, etc. once everything resumes!
Or attend Conventions, for all you who are a single full-time servants looking for a 💃 or a 🕴.
The Health Care Department----of JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION---will be contacting each one of you to see if you have gotten vaccinated.
For regular JW members---------------Well this letter is ONLY FOR FULL TIME SERVANTS-----So until further notice-----------Do What You Want-----------What do we care!
I just save you all about 50 minutes of Loyd's video.
dr. leanna wen is currently spreading the fallacy that unvaccinated persons should have vaccines mandated because they are like drunk drivers… they have the right to be drunk at home she says, but wanting to be part of society at large without being vaccinated is like driving drunk and putting others at risk.
besides ignoring the science proving that persons who have had sars cov-2 have natural immunity that equals or exceeds anything that could be imparted from the mrna shot, without the side effects or need for boosters, ( sorry big pharma, you’ll be losing $$$ ) this illustration just smacks of illogical reasoning.
it reminds me of the borg comparing getting baptized to getting your driver’s license.
DD, they removed the YT video
will we close down again?
will we be masked forever?
will we be required to get vaccinated over and over again?
minimus
Covid is as high as it was back in February where only 10% had a shot. Now 70% have the shot and the numbers are high again. Makes zero sense.
Let's break it down to see if it makes sense.
February + 10% had the shot = Covid High
Today + 70% have the shot = Covid High
February vs Today = Covid Still High ----NO CHANGE.
10% have shot = 70% have shot-----NO CHANGE
Answer = SHOT DON'T WORK
