Posts by pistolpete

30

Why it takes a long time to bring a religious cult down.

by pistolpete in

i think the first thing to consider is that it takes a while for humans to wake up to the truth.

this is not just a jw thing.

around 1600 ad, galileo challenged the catholic church's long held view that the earth was the center of our universe.

pistolpete

Smiddy3 How is this possible ? With all of the flip-flops ,evident realities not realized ,false predictions ,dates , about The big "A" happening around 1975 ,then before the end of the 20th Century ,not to mention those previous predictions early in the 20th Century?
Where is this growth coming from ?

I think we need to look closer at what is being described as “Growth”

In a world with almost 8 billion people, I don’t consider a 6 million spurt in “Publishers” NOT Committed BAPTIZED members, (There’s a difference) - over a span of about 40 years to be considered stupendous. .

A publisher can be an UNBAPTIZED member in good standing who may decide not to get baptized. That happens a lot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Graph says “Average Publishers” Not Average Baptized Membership growth.

So how many Actual Baptized Members Growth is there really????

The graph is not about growth in baptized members is it?

They are not stupid to print this data.

From the Graph we can only extrapolate that;

There was a 6 million growth in PUBLISHERS for the past 40 years----NOT Baptized members

What we do know is that now with the new change, there is not a time limit to be considered a publisher. It used to be 15 minutes to be counted as a publisher, but now according to many posts on exjw reddit, the instructions from headquarters is that all you have to say now is that you published during the month without handing any amount of time.

This really skewds the true numbers of membership of BAPTIZED MEMBERS, which in all honesty, the graph is not about baptized members, it's about "Publishers who includes those who are not baptized like children who will never get baptized and become actual members.

Of those that do get baptized the trend is going Pimo instead of getting disfellowshipped.

And still even with that, every year avg. about 43,300 BAPTIZED members who are disfellowshipped and about two thirds never come back.

There is a reason why they don't have two day Kingdom Hall builts anymore.The "True" membership is just not there anymore.

Something I learned in College is that statistics can be misleading.

Statistics are persuasive. So much so that people, organizations, and whole countries base some of their most important decisions on organized data. But any set of statistics might have something lurking inside it that can turn the results completely upside down.

Consider “Simpson’s Paradox in the video below

https://www.ted.com/talks/mark_liddell_how_statistics_can_be_misleading

30

Why it takes a long time to bring a religious cult down.

by pistolpete in

i think the first thing to consider is that it takes a while for humans to wake up to the truth.

this is not just a jw thing.

around 1600 ad, galileo challenged the catholic church's long held view that the earth was the center of our universe.

pistolpete

TD
I watched my own relatives become disillusioned later in life. One of them was actually quite high in the JW hierarchy. It made no difference.

Isn't that sad, I had this kind of "Pain" in my stomach or heart, whatever you want to call it, when I saw them wasting their life and I was literally helpless in being able to help them.

I have always wanted to help them "SEE", but I'm was not able to penetrate their wall.

It was so frustrating. Eventually I left them alone and the years passed by. I did my own thing and now many of them are getting old and their hopes of never dying has been dashed to pieces.

It saddens me to see them this way. I wish I didn't care but I can't help it.

23

What have you learn being on this site?

by asp59 in

i have learn a lot about the religion and congregations.

when i was active visiting meetings, i was there for the spiritual food.

i actually thought everyone else was there for same reason ;-) i have learn there's a great variation among jws.

pistolpete

LongHairGal

Sadly, the only way you would learn all these things is if you got involved personally

Ain't that the truth!

Some people say that there's better ways of learning than personal experience.

Well I'm sure there's "Less Painful" ways of learning than personal experience.

But the hard fact is that getting involved personally, though more painful, is actually the True way of getting all the facts----first hand.

There's a Big difference between an exjw saying the Watchtower is a Bad religion.

vs

An exjw husband who says he was duped into letting his young wife die because he was told by the Watchtower that God is displeased if he allows a blood transfusion to save his wife.

30

Why it takes a long time to bring a religious cult down.

by pistolpete in

i think the first thing to consider is that it takes a while for humans to wake up to the truth.

this is not just a jw thing.

around 1600 ad, galileo challenged the catholic church's long held view that the earth was the center of our universe.

pistolpete

slimboyfat
So how long might it take for Jehovah’s Witnesses to disappear?

That’s a question that’s impossible to answer. Reason being is because the disappearance of any religion will be the result of many factors.

For one thing, in the USA, a non-profit corporation can’t just close its doors legally.

There are complex and lengthy procedures that a non profit corporation has to go through in order to close it’s doors.

Here is a basic outline on the steps that the Watchtower would have to take in order to shut down.

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/how-do-you-shut-down-a-nonprofit-2501889

From a economic point of view, people like the Governing Body who don’t have to work for a living as long as the Non-Profit Watchtower stays intact, it would behoove them to do everything they can to stay legal and operating until the very last dollar. As long as there is enough monies coming in to support them individually, they will not close down the Organization.

I mean if I owned a non-profit Corporation that was making Billions, and finally it started crashing and came to the point where it was only making ONE million a year. I would not close it down because ONE million a year is enough to keep me from going out and having to work.

What will happen “Eventually” is that the Watchtower Organization will take its place among the 40,000 plus Christians Sects that already exist and continue to exist because they have (followers/ believers) who are willing to support them with monies.

I am sure that for the next several decades the Watchtower will undergo ‘Ups and Downs” in membership.

But it will never have the glory it had when it was necessary to have two day Kingdom Hall built every other weekend.

27

I think the Jw Religion is getting better. Not by choice.

by pistolpete in

one of my jw family member had a big get together.

he invited a lot of his jw friends.

there was teenage kids, couples, singles.

pistolpete

asp59
There's no Uber elders no more. Mean elders that follow GB every decision....Neither elders or co were interested in obeying. GB lost control over congregations long time ago. Everyone does what they feel like. Not even gb members can agree on things

That's actually very informative. It makes total sense and explains a lot in what is happening in the congregations.

Reminds me of what is happening in the political world.

Mean radical elders who love the power control!

27

I think the Jw Religion is getting better. Not by choice.

by pistolpete in

one of my jw family member had a big get together.

he invited a lot of his jw friends.

there was teenage kids, couples, singles.

pistolpete

slimboyfat
I find it terribly difficult to gauge how many JWs truly believe it.

It's almost impossible. The organization has transitioned into situation where the entire organization is now a "Mixture" of PIMOs, PIMIs, and PIMQs.

Headquarters can't even figure out who is leaking out all the secret information into the hands of apostates like Loyd Evans.

The only thing that gives them away is their surface observable loyalty. Elders that hunt down the rule breakers = True Believers.

Those trying to fade = PIMOs

30

Why it takes a long time to bring a religious cult down.

by pistolpete in

i think the first thing to consider is that it takes a while for humans to wake up to the truth.

this is not just a jw thing.

around 1600 ad, galileo challenged the catholic church's long held view that the earth was the center of our universe.

pistolpete

I think the first thing to consider is that it takes a while for Humans to wake up to the Truth. This is not just a jw thing.

Around 1600 AD, Galileo challenged the Catholic Church's long held view that the Earth was the center of our Universe. This resulted in Galileo’s trial and in the end Galileo was forced to recant his theories and was sent to house imprisonment. Galileo never again spoke about the theory.

Finally, in 1992, spacecraft had been launched on its way to Jupiter, the Vatican formally and publicly cleared Galileo of any wrongdoing. It took about 400 years for the Church to admit they were wrong.

My jw uncle who was 40 years old in 1995 told me that he knew something was up in the year 1995 when a Watchtower magazine made a hint mention of a change in the generation that would not die. He said they were now slyly changing the word “Generation” to mean something else. But they didn’t elaborate too much. He called the Circuit Overseer who was a close friend and the CO also caught the implication of what was happening but he told my uncle to wait and see if more new light would come out in the months to follow.

My uncle wrote a letter to the Society and ask what they meant in the magazine by generation and they gave him the same answer as the CO, which was to wait on the faithful slave as they would give more new light in the months to come.

So my uncle waited. And waited, And waited.

It was not until 2008 ----some 13 years later and my uncle was now 53 years of age, that new light was printed saying that "As a class, these anointed ones make up the modern-day "generation" of contemporaries that will not pass away "until all these things occur."

So my uncle did the same thing as before, called the CO, wrote the Society and both told him to wait on new light

Two years later 2010, my uncle was now 55 years old and another change came that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. Again my uncle Waited for more information.

Then in September 2015 my uncle finally turned 60 years of age, and was now considered “Elderly” by the young jws. He heard the JW Broadcast on jw.org explained that the generation included any anointed that Overlapped with Frederick William Franz. (They extended the end to another 80 years.😩)

At 60 years of age my Uncle found himself in this predicament. Born in the Religion, pioneered, served as MS then elder all his life, worked odd jobs all his life, and now the generation that would not die, - would die which meant----HE WOULD DIE!😩

At this point my uncle went through a mental breakdown for about a year. (which I didn’t know at the time) But now I know the whole story.

By this time my uncle had no choice but to stick it out and hope Jehovah would fix this mess.

2020, my uncle turned 65 and the pandemic closed all kingdom halls and stopped field service worldwide. My uncle stepped down as an elder, does not support the WT financially, and is officially PIMO.

2022, my uncle will get his first Social Security check in a few days. He will be 67 years old.

1969 AWAKE said “if you are a young person you will have to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things”.

Who knows how many jws are in the same shoes as my uncle. In the organization but as a PIMO and not as a true believer.

My uncle says the most he will be around is perhaps another 30 years if he is lucky and covid doesn't kill him.

In 30 years we will have a clearer picture of whether the Watchtower will survive or become a small religious cult of a few thousand believers.

It seems like it takes a while to bring down a religious cult but NOT REALLY.

What really happens is that 30 years is a life time for many. If a person is Born in, and he does all he can to be loyal to "Jehovah" and at 30 (1st stop at maturity) he becomes an elder, it only takes 30 more years and he becomes a senior.

Too late to leave at that point and lose your family, you network, and your hope.

These are the ones that will not leave. They will die in the organization whether they are true believers or not. Maybe somehow God will work it all out---they hope.

But what's the point of leaving at this point. The best part of your life is gone, the Watchtower used it all up, and nothing you do will restore your youth.

It's not that it takes long, it's that life is so short.

23

New year's predictions for watchtower.

by asp59 in

well don't know if this page has tread for new years predictions or with date it starts.

so might as well start now.

my new year's prediction for watchtower would be a big big sell out of kingdom hall's.

pistolpete

That's like McDonald's Corporate announcing that the Big Mac & French Fries won't be available for several months.

Don't say that because it's blasphemy.

27

I think the Jw Religion is getting better. Not by choice.

by pistolpete in

one of my jw family member had a big get together.

he invited a lot of his jw friends.

there was teenage kids, couples, singles.

pistolpete

slimboyfat

I’ve seen elders interrupt Zoom conversations where someone was questioning vaccine safety to say that’s not an appropriate conversation in KH breakout rooms. I know people being held back from privileges and baptism unless they turn their cameras on during the meeting. I don’t think that rule is anywhere in the elder’s published guidance, it’s a rule they made up themselves.

I agree that there are pockets or groups in which elders still have and want total control. But I believe that is not the case world wide. There is definitely a change happening in the organization. For example, on exjw reddit there are literally tons of PIMO elders posting who are confessing that they are trying to wake up as many as possible by making comments that cause questioning in the minds of publishers.

These same elders admit that they will do everything they can to not pursue judicial discipline on those who walk the thin line of rules. And they will do everything possible to not disfellowship anyone who gets involved in a disfellowshipping offense.

This change is just the beginning of what is transpiring in the Organization. There are still Old Radical - True Believes jws, who will do anything the GB says whether it makes sense or not. But those types of jws are slowly passing on.

The organization in times past was 99 percent full blown believers who would not question drinking the Kool-Aid. But those times have changed. Now the organization is a mix of True Believers and PIMOs. Which includes elders.

23

New year's predictions for watchtower.

by asp59 in

well don't know if this page has tread for new years predictions or with date it starts.

so might as well start now.

my new year's prediction for watchtower would be a big big sell out of kingdom hall's.

pistolpete

The organization is going to continue to free-fall.

More will wake up, More will leave, more will join the PIMO ranks.

The GB will continue its fear-mongering of the Last Days.

But they CAN NEVER GO BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS.

That train is long gone.