RubaDub
Well jesus did say to pay your taxes. He never says slaves should be free or is evil. Its easy to see jesus worries more about big institutions getting money than people getting freedom.
Posts by mP
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9Jesus, the Money-Changers and ATM machines ?
by RubaDub ineverytime i go to an assembly, a picture with the atm machine comes to mind.. in one of the older publications there was a picture of jesus in the temple over-turning the tables of the money-changers.. come on photoshop people .... add a couple of atm machines falling down into the picture.. it would be great to have for a party and the time spent could be added to your monthly service time.. rub a dub.
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Upcoming KM!! Why we are not False Prophets!
by DATA-DOG inthis subject is coming up this month in the tms.
i just thought i would start a post for newbies or lurkers.
if you have any scans of the awake inside cover that would be awesome.
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mP
Interestingly, the phrase " within our twentieth century " appears only once in the CD Library. How long before this reference is removed?
MP: Th e catholic churches said jesus was born 2013 years ago, this is obviously the work of Satan. We are actually 1913 years since his birth. Next year is 1914, all hail Daniel, Magog and Ashura.
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Revelation Climax book - what are the most ridiculous claims in it?
by RayPublisher ini got to thinking about all the strange interpretations in the old revelation climax book now that i have perused it again on pdf.
(thanks atlantis!).
does anyone care to toss in their two cents on what are the most outrageous and/or ridiculous claims in it?.
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mP
WTF is jesus in the history records!
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268
After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?
by smiddy inhe/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.
fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.
with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.
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mP
COLD:
Why do you quote a passage known and accepted by scholars to be a fraud or insertion ? Is it honest to use a fraudulent material like this ?
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268
After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?
by smiddy inhe/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.
fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.
with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.
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mP
Just look at Josephus writings, the guy writes many volumes and the most he supposedly mentions about jesus is a few lines. Surely a man who had thousands and performed miracles deserves more of a mention.COLD:
Also, please show me where I lied, just so I know.
MP:
Check my last post from page 4, you lied when you claimed scholars accept the TF as authentic. Its there in b&white for all too see.
COLD:
Oh, and if you go to college, try taking some theology courses while you're at it. You seem to be getting all your information from questionable sites.
MP:
Of coursei have because you are the ultimate authority. Name one questionable authority i have used ? are you saying the quotations i give are unfaithful ?
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After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?
by smiddy inhe/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.
fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.
with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.
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mP
mP: First of all its Testimonium Flavianium.
COLD:
Yes it is, my mistake. It was a copy and paste error. Let me rephrase: Do you have any idea what the Testimonium Flavianium is?
You're the one who said that it contained nothing of the Jesus in the Bible. You were completely incorrect. Now, instead of admitting you made an error, you reply with another criticism.
mP:
I think you mis understood why i mentioned the passage about jesus being the son of damneus. As you probably know the TF and the other passage are the proofs for jesus taken from josephus writings. i was trying to paint a complete picture instead of selecting quoting.
I made no error, i was simply referring to both texts as they together constitute xian proof for Jesus.
How does one copy paste and turn V's into F's. I think you mean typo, your computers clipboard does not alter Vs into Fs.
Cold:
What difference does it make when the word "Christian" appeared? Does that make a difference?
MP:
They are different words with completely different meanings.
Christian with an I means a follower of Christ, Chrestian with an E means a useful or good person. Im sure you will agree thats quite different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#Christians_and_Chrestians
Christians and Chrestians [ edit source | edit beta ]
Detail of the 11th century copy of Annals, the gap between the 'i' and 's' is highlighted in the word 'Christianos'. The passage states:
- "... called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin ..."
In 1902 Georg Andresen commented on the appearance of the first 'i' and subsequent gap in the earliest extant, 11th century, copy of the Annals in Florence, suggesting that the text had been altered, and an 'e' had originally been in the text, rather than this 'i'. [15] "With ultra-violet examination of the MS the alteration was conclusively shown. It is impossible today to say who altered the letter e into an i. In Suetonius’ Nero 16.2, "christiani", however, seems to be the original reading". [16] Since the alteration became known it has given rise to debates among scholars as to whether Tacitus deliberately used the term Chrestians, or if a scribe made an error during the Middle Ages. [17] [18] It has been stated that both the terms Christians and Chrestians had at times been used by the general population in Rome to refer to early Christians. [19] Robert Van Voorst claims that many sources indicate that the term Chrestians was also used among the early followers of Jesus by the second century. [18] [20] The term Christians appears only three times in the New Testament, the first usage (Acts 11:26) giving the origin of the term. [18] In all three cases the uncorrected Codex Sinaiticus in Greek reads Chrestianoi. [18] [20] In Phrygia a number of funerary stone inscriptions use the term Chrestians, with one stone inscription using both terms together, reading: "Chrestians for Christians". [20]
mP: Lots of people back then did miracles, Vespasian supposedly cured a blind man. Considering it doesnt say what marvelous things he did, this is hardly specific in pin pointing an individual.
COLD:
Look, no one is even reading this thread any more. Your observation, above, is irrelevant. Vespasian was first supreme commander of the military force that destroyed Jerusalem. Then he was emperor. Do you think anyone is going to dispute him? But how about Jesus? Where are those who disputed him at the time?
mP:
Given the NT was preserved, selected and given to us by the same Romans, why believe one politically motivated book over another ? THe church was controlled by the emperor. They destroyed the holy writings of the gnostics, the library of alexandria and more to hide the origins of xianity.
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We Are Not Witnesses For JEHOVAH - According to the Bible
by The Searcher injehovah gave his worshippers a prophesied new name, (isa.
62:2; acts 11:26) but in j.f.
rutherford's eyes it was not distinctive enough from a marketing point of view, (having restructured "the business" after its severe contraction in the 20s due to his failed 'vision') so he came up with a name which featured the creator's distinctive name, "jehovah's witnesses" - a business strategy employed in those days by kellog and many others.. we now describe them as 'designer names'.. here are the scriptural proofs, but of course, they may count for nothing in some people's eyes because the "glorious ones" in brooklyn say differently!
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mP
Cold:
Well said, Searcher! The apostles weren't special witnesses of the Father, they were special witnesses of Jesus. And though Jesus gave all glory to the Father, the Father and the Spirit both bore witness of Christ.
MP:
Well the apostles werent very good witneses of Jesus, as none of them wrote a gospel. Didnt they know or werent they told by God it might be a good idea to write a definitive account ?Please dont tell me Matthew wrote Matthew.
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We Are Not Witnesses For JEHOVAH - According to the Bible
by The Searcher injehovah gave his worshippers a prophesied new name, (isa.
62:2; acts 11:26) but in j.f.
rutherford's eyes it was not distinctive enough from a marketing point of view, (having restructured "the business" after its severe contraction in the 20s due to his failed 'vision') so he came up with a name which featured the creator's distinctive name, "jehovah's witnesses" - a business strategy employed in those days by kellog and many others.. we now describe them as 'designer names'.. here are the scriptural proofs, but of course, they may count for nothing in some people's eyes because the "glorious ones" in brooklyn say differently!
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mP
TheSearcher:
Its interesting how nearly all the scriptures you quote, you need to insert the words Jesus or Christ. Sounds like someone is manipulating the text to change its meaning.
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After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?
by smiddy inhe/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.
fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.
with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.
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mP
COLD:
On the third day he appeared to them restored to life. For the prophets of God had prophesied these and myriads of other marvelous things about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still up to now, not disappeared.
mP:
Lots of people back then did miracles, Vespasian supposedly cured a blind man. Considering it doesnt say what marvelous things he did, this is hardly specific in pin pointing an individual.
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After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?
by smiddy inhe/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.
fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.
with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.
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mP
COLD:
Tell me, mP, do you know what the Testimonium Vlavianum is?mP:
First of all its Testimonium Flavianium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testimonium_Flavianum
COLD:
This version may actually be genuine. Notice Josephus doesn’t call Jesus the Messiah, but reports that “his disciples” reported that he [Jesus] appeared to them after his crucifixion and that “he was perhaps the Messiah.” So he puts that term in their mouths.
mP:
Pilate ruled for 40ish years, he executed many people called Jesus (actually Joshua). Just because J had some disciples doesnt make him Jesus of Nazareth. Its not as if J was a unique name.
COLD:
They reported that he had appeared to them after his crucifixion and that he was alive;
mP:
COLD:
You also said I failed to discuss who Jesus, the son of Damneus, is. I assume he was the son of Damneus; he certainly has nothing to do with the Testimonium Vlavianum , nor does he figure into any discussion of Jesus, the Son of God, the Messiah.
mP:
Read Josephus other reference to a man called Jesus, that xians claim refers to Jesus of N.
COLD:
And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still up to now, not disappeared.
mP:
The word Christian does not appear in the Bible. Originally it was Chrestian and that only appears 3 times. You can verify this by searching for it in the codexsinacticus.org. Christian evolved much later.
This line is the one that most scholars use to demonstrate the TF to be a fraud.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testimonium_Flavianum
The earliest secure reference to this passage is found in the writings of the fourth-century Christian apologist and historian Eusebius , who used Josephus' works extensively as a source for his own Historia Ecclesiastica . Writing no later than 324, [53] Eusebius quotes the passage [54] in essentially the same form as that preserved in extant manuscripts. It has therefore been suggested that part or all of the passage may have been Eusebius' own invention, in order to provide an outside Jewish authority for the life of Christ. [55] [56] However, it is also possible that others, including the third-century patristic writer Origen also knew of the passage. Although Origen makes no direct reference to the Testimonium , scholars such as Louis Feldman and Zvi Baras have presented arguments that Origen may have seen a copy of the Testimonium and not commented on it for there was no need to complain about its tone. [57] [58]
Of course its authentic thats why its unknown for 400 years, an no christian doctor or apologist mentions it for that period of time.
COLD:
As I have taken great pains to show you, mP, that you are the one who was incorrect. Again, you didn’t check your facts and you resorted to name calling. Are you now going to be man enough to apologize?
The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus with a reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate which was then subject to interpolation. [5] [6] [7] [8]
I would apologise i always do, and always reply to people when i can with a direct question. Given i have shown you have lied what are you to do ?
We have a perfect example of you lying without reasomnable doubt.
