peace!.
you have stated (and others have agreed and stated the same) that faith is not based on evidence, or it is not faith to begin with.
may i ask you, then, if you think the apostles and early disciples, who walked with christ, had faith?
TEC
Didn't Jesus even warn of the risks of building on sand (more paradoxical sayings of Jesus)?
Yes, the foolish man... as opposed to the wise man who built his house upon the rock.
Which house could not fall, because the foundation was SURE.
mP:
But concrete is made up of cement and sand. I guess all those buildings including your home made of sand must be wrong or stupid engineering wise.
Damn that Jesus was wise, pay taxes, be a good slave and all that.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Fernando
God has made humans the gatekeepers of the physical universe.
We can choose to channel good or evil.
mP:
So we are gatekeepers of places we have never been and can never go. Thats total nonsense.
The concepts of good and evil only exist for humans. We never say flies or viruses are good or evil. You cant send a caterpillar to jail for being evil. Dogs cant rob banks.
wow...hard to believe anyone would openly make this kind of comment.... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/richard-dawkins-pedophilia_n_3895514.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003#slide=989667.
Now if only the same people criticizing Dawkins for what he said, actually critisized the Bible for what it says about rape, slavery, racism and religion for what they said and continue to say and what they did and continue do.
Lets not forget that hero of supposed morality jesus , never condemned slavery, pedophilia but actually says things to help the masters of the former.
hey guys.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyiudkuoadw.
what do you think?.
personally since syria is the domain of mulsims, im waiting for mohammad and his 777 virgins. Sura 45 quite clearly states this.
i think that in our various discussions about life after the wt, we many times forget about the cornerstone of christian life - the resurrection.
the implications of the existence a man who holds the power of life and death is manifold.
it makes discussions about the existence of god obsolete.. for all of scientists' accomplishments they have never been able to make even one amobea come alive from non-life.
Rawe:
Your assertion is more mild, just that Paul knows nothing about Jesus. And my assertion is even more mild, that all we can say is if Paul did know specific details of the life of the historical Jesus he didn't report on them.
mP:
Actually i think it can be argued that Paul never existed either. Many aspects of his story are also miraculous and super human. i have raised in other threads that i think the chrch network and communications between them and Paul is impossible.
There is no historical account i have seen that mentions a Paul or Saul call him what you will doing any of the things he claims. Given it was a Roman world who would have given him authority to persecute lets call them non beliving jews ? WOuld Rome allow one religious group to lynch another ? WOuld the USA gov allow mulsims to lynch jews or some other group today ? The answer to both is of course not. This sort of religious hatreds is bad for business, Rome couldnt allow this to happen because it destroyed their tax base. Its this sort of religious hatreds that created the atmosphere that resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad etc.
RAWE:
To use your George Washington example, if you referenced GW with nearly every post to point out what an important man he was to your philosophy, should we find it odd, that you refrain from citing any specific about the life of GW? Maybe. But I'm not sure that could be used as proof that you didn't really know any about GW.
mP:
But Paul never discusses any of jesus ministry once. He also uses the wrong name for Peter. How come he didnt know Cephas had a name change to Peter ?
RAWE:
In regards to the gospels, my feelings are they are different than Paul's writings for two reasons. The obvious is different authors have different styles. But I think the biggest difference is in purpose -- the intent of the gospels (esp the synoptic ones) was the capture a life-story of Jesus. Likely the ones selected for the Bible canon were the most popular and most trusted of their day.
mP:
I think theres merit in saying that Paul believed in totally different religion compared to modern xianity. I dont believe xianity started about 30ad. I have yet to see any proof. I think the dating of authorship of the gospels is a strong case for this. If there were lots of believers, surely some should have written something immediately after Jesus death rather than waiting 40+ years.
RAWE:
One of the challenges a friend of mine who was in the process of leaving the faith, while I was still strongly in, gave me was to reconcile the resurrection accounts. I thought no problem, pulled out the Greatest Man book and The Bible and started. Alas, I don't think it can be done. The accounts have serious and not so easy to dismiss contraditions.
mP:
Firstly let me say i dont bleieve the author mk believed in such account. Most bibles tell us the resurrection part is an addition. The style of Mat & Lk quite clearly show they are adding to Mk, and simply making up stuff. Many times their accounts conflict with each other because they were not aware of the other. There was no attempt to be honest. Whether the writer or the third hand accounts they are using are wrong doesnt matter, they just write whatever they wish.
Just lies cant keep a story straight, the same is true of the gospels. Basically teh authors are liars, or the ones telling them the story are inventive. take your pick.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/global-cooling-arctic-ice-caps-grows-60-global-warming-predictions.html.
climate change is a legitimate concern - especially as it affects poor nations.
however, the subject has been twisted by greedy global elites resulting in disappointments (if you wish to call them that!
scotoma:
look at wiki, theres a graph that shows temps have been getting warmer for a few hundred years. Temp is always going up and down. The dishonesty is claiming its directly because of manmade carbon
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/global-cooling-arctic-ice-caps-grows-60-global-warming-predictions.html.
climate change is a legitimate concern - especially as it affects poor nations.
however, the subject has been twisted by greedy global elites resulting in disappointments (if you wish to call them that!
Smiddy:
What, ? we have only been recording weather patterns for about a hundred years , more or less ? What do we really know about long change weather patterns or climate changes over centuries on planet earth.
mP:
They have calculated temps before the industrial revolution in the 1800s even back then things fluctuated.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/global-cooling-arctic-ice-caps-grows-60-global-warming-predictions.html.
climate change is a legitimate concern - especially as it affects poor nations.
however, the subject has been twisted by greedy global elites resulting in disappointments (if you wish to call them that!
smiddy:
Climate change , global warming , global cooling , who is right .?
both are right .
mP:
Climate change has been with us since the beginning of time. In fact it happens everyday (we call it day when it gets warmer, and night when it cools). As you note nothing is constant, cycles of various kinds appear and increase or decrease temp.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/global-cooling-arctic-ice-caps-grows-60-global-warming-predictions.html.
climate change is a legitimate concern - especially as it affects poor nations.
however, the subject has been twisted by greedy global elites resulting in disappointments (if you wish to call them that!
Capt:
So, mp? Is banning SUVs necessary to cure climate change?
Give your head a shake
mP:
SUV dont help *fix* climate change do they ? Everything counts if theres a big problem. burning petrol in all its forms contrinbutes to global warming. Gov should ban cars and more if theres really a rush to counter g/w.
i'm still determined not to vote - just to write something unpleasant about pollies on the ballot paper.
if i lived in victoria, i just may, as an act of sheer bastardry, vote for julian assange (of wikileaks fame), but i don't live in vic, so i cant.. my objection to voting is that the political choice offers two self-perpetuating oligarchies (who are something like the governing body).
they make up a slate of candidates and election advertising consists of attempting to persuade swinging voters to vote for their slate of candidates.. anyway, i noted that k.rudd has made a video in chinese, aimed apparently at mainland china.
jeffro:
If SL really went downhill after 2009, why is it so hard to find a statement somewhere that reflects this ? If SL had a bad faminine or a new war started it would be somewhere online that we could all find.
Just telling me more SL left after 2009, only tells us they left, it doesnt make them refugees. They left because somebody opened a door for them.
Im waiting...
