Posts by mP

36

Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures

by mP in

jw
friends

i am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.

in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.

in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.

mP

@TEC

Unless the whole reason he ignored her was because of the covenant, and not because he was racist. He was doing as he was told, based on that.

"I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

THAT is why he ignored her. Yet, he relented and did as she asked when she showed strong faith. He did not grant her request because she changed her race. Should that not give you cause to think that he might have another reason for acting as he did?

@MP

I accept that your argument is GOD only sent him to the jews. However at some stage jesus changed that as you have pointed out by highlighting Matthew 28. This shows that Jesus has some authority, free will, he is not a robot. Too bad during his thousands of years in heaven he didnt realise that from the beginning of his mission and was racist throughout. Mt 28 shows he personally didnt want to trouble himself with gentiles because of race and wants to leave that dirty work to future believers. Whatever the logic , its obvious Jesus is racist.

If i took the same story, changed the names and presented it to many people, they would all say sure he is racist. its as simple as that.

36

Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures

by mP in

jw
friends

i am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.

in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.

in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.

mP

@TEC

I bring up other verses and scriptures to support what I am saying. That Christ could not go to the Gentile woman before he went to those who were part of the promise/covenant/contract. Because the promise was TO Israel. This is why he did not answer the Gentile woman... not because he was racist, but because he was fulfilling the promise that was given to Israel. If he was racist, then he would not have later told his disciples to preach to the rest of the nations on the earth. Matt 28: 19 Go and make disciples of all nations. Nor would the great multitude from revelation consist of people from every tribe, nation, people and language. Now would we have John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

The verses I bring up dispute your conclusion and offer an alternative reason that is not in conflict with the rest.

(Of course, he relented and healed the daughter of the gentil woman anyway, because of her faith. Showing that people can be heard and saved by faith... now that is a bit off topic, but the rest is not)

Peace,

tammy

MP

God loved the world so much as it says in John 3:16 but Jesus was still racist to a woman who was a few steps away from him. That just sounds idiot.

Again you wish to bring in another scripture, please answer the original one i presented. Matth 28 is a separate day in jesus life. He can be racist one day and then have other thoughts another day. The two are not mutually exclusive.

36

Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures

by mP in

jw
friends

i am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.

in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.

in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.

mP

Romans 4:13 -16 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring recieved the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who love by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring - not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham.

That text is wishy washy and it also makes statements that are wrong. I have demonstrated that Abrahams faith was weak and failed when it counts. Yes he was human, but apparently he failed, thats what the scriptures say. Im not judging him, but i do wonder how someone who sees such wonder with Pharoah could so easily forget when he runs into trouble in the future.

If we all have the same faith as Abraham, then we dont really have faith do we ?

36

Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures

by mP in

jw
friends

i am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.

in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.

in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.

mP

@TEC

Im sorry righteousness doenst mean faith, they are very much separate words with different meanings. Check any dictionary. It the author of Genesis thought the covenenent was because of faith, he should have said so AND at the very least included a story that demonstrated this faith.

Again you misread what I said. I did not ask if righteousness meant faith. I asked if belief meant faith. I would suggest that you check any dictionary, but your own post above has faith and belief as interchangeable words.

Peace,

tammy

@MP

I suppose faith=belief. I fail to see why this matters, you keep avoiding the core question.

36

Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures

by mP in

jw
friends

i am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.

in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.

in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.

mP

@TEC

Ignore the mission, just focus on the limited scriptures i have presented. Its not fair that you bring stuff from the outside you just make things ever more complicated and the scope ever the more larger making it difficult for us to focus on what is just a small story told in a few lines of text.

36

Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures

by mP in

jw
friends

i am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.

in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.

in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.

mP

@TEC

Gen 15:6 Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness

mP - What does believed mean other than faith?

In either case, how about we move on? The covenant with Israel was based on a promise made to Abraham. Do you accept this?

Christ's acts were in fulfillment to that promise and covenant... not because he was racist. Are you going to answer the questions I asked?

Peace,

Tammy

@MP

Im sorry righteousness doenst mean faith, they are very much separate words with different meanings. Check any dictionary. It the author of Genesis thought the covenenent was because of faith, he should have said so AND at the very least included a story that demonstrated this faith.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/righteous

[ rahy -ch uh s ] Origin

right·eous

[ rahy -ch uh s ] Show IPA adjective 1. characterized by uprightness or morality: a righteous observance of the law. 2. morally right or justifiable: righteous indignation. 3. acting in an upright, moral way; virtuous: a righteous and godly person. 4. Slang . absolutely genuine or wonderful: some righteous playing by a jazz great. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith faith
[ feyth ] Show IPA noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion : the firm faith of the Pilgrims. 4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics , standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty. 5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
I am not discussing about Christ mission, im discussing what he as a man did. You continue to dodge his actions and words with the Samaritan woman.
I have already conceeded Jesus was on a mission, it doesnt matter if he was or wasnt. We are all busy everyday, it doesnt mean we should be racist if we run into someone of a different race. We can still be kind or at the very least civil.

36

Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures

by mP in

jw
friends

i am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.

in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.

in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.

mP

@TEC

Christ came and fullfilled that covenant by searching out those who were the recipients of that covenant, but who were lost. Hence the lost sheep of Israel. That is fulfilling a promise... it is not racism.

@MP

I am not discussing why Jesus came here, i think we both can agree that is a separate matter. I however totally agree his original mission was to talk only to jews.

My argument is based solely and focuses on the only times Jesus talked and interacted with gentiles. Every time he talks about them or at them, he is racist. I would be interested if you can prove me wrong in this assertion, im pretty confident you cant.

ABRAHAMIC CONVENENT

This Jesus mission is racist, the Abrahamic convenant is racist, he is racist for accepting that idea and supporting it. There is so much wrong with the Abrahamic convenent, its idea, gods promise, the contradictions, the racism that one can only safely conclude its a story with a difficult agenda that fails. If a real God did promise judea to Abraham he failed, because as we know they were kicked out of the land etc by the Romans and the dispora. Dont tell me about special cases that they must be faithful the original promise does not include this clause. This clause is an invention or excuse to explain the original bullshit. If you wish to discuss the Abrahamic convenant we can start another thread, ill be happy to continue there.

ANSWER

I have answered nearly all your questions, now please answer my only question. Forget everything else. Was JC racist ?

36

Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures

by mP in

jw
friends

i am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.

in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.

in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.

mP

@TEC

Im sorry the author of (its not Paul BTW) Romans is talking bullshit, i have shown on three occassions that Abraham's faith failed, in scripture. We can safely ignore the text here and conclude its wrong for ourselves.

Oh. So you just dismiss what you don't like in favor of what you do like? You decide to ignore this because it does not concur with what you think? You are the one who told me that we cannot understand the OT, but here is someone who is of Israel (in the flesh), and your opinion is worth more than his? Do you think that because someone's faith is weak at times, that it cannot also be strong? Your scriptures might show weak faith at times on the part of Abraham, but he still never failed to do as God commanded. That shows strong faith. In either case, faith, obedience, righteousness... take your pick, it does not change the fact that God established a covenant with Israel, based on a promise made to Abraham. Christ came and fullfilled that covenant by searching out those who were the recipients of that covenant, but who were lost. Hence the lost sheep of Israel. That is fulfilling a promise... it is not racism. I'll let you answer the questions that I asked now though, because those show even more how unlikely this racism accusation actually is. Peace, tammy @MP How do we explain the message of the author of Romans that you quote: - a mistake, he thought the OT said Abraham had faith somewhere but couldnt find it (unlikely). - propaganda or a lie or exaggerated true - made up idea. I dismiss Romans because it is wrong, the Bible shows the exact opposite. I have three separate cases where it clearer shows Abraham has no faith. The last is particularly worrisome because he should have learnt from the Pharaoh case. We have the scriptures ourself there is no need to accept someone elses commentary when we can read the authority and come to our own conclusions.

36

Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures

by mP in

jw
friends

i am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.

in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.

in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.

mP

@Tec

No, you missed the point. You said Jesus and his disciples were angry... and that to support you 'Jesus was not such a good guy' statement to me.

That is what I was talking about. The account says nothing about any of them being angry. You read that into the account and it has no scriptural backing.

Peace,

tammy

@MP

Ill conceed i made a mistake, for me the text seems to show jesus to be angry. Im sorry. It still doesnt change the fact he was racist.

QUESTION!

Can you say jesus was a racist, i cant find any admission. Whatever mistakes i made in my presentation are minor, compared to the issue. Your attempts to justify the racism are broken, the scriptures are plain wrong in their assumptions (Abraham had faith).

36

Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures

by mP in

jw
friends

i am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.

in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.

in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.

mP

@TEC

Faith of Abraham:

Genesis 12: 1-4 The LORD has said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. I will make you intoa great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and however curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." So Abram left, as the LORD had told him.

Genesis 15: 6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Romans 4:13 -16 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring recieved the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who love by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring - not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham.

@MP

Im sorry Abraham had little faith in God as recorded in the OT. I am going to argue at no stage did Abraham demonstrate faith that warranted such a "gift" from God.

For one thing Abraham didnt even know gods name, so there couldnt have been much of a friendship or interaction over that hundred years. The story is just propaganda and doesnt even bother to list facts, because they dont exist or its talking to us as if it were an authority and we are idiots or children.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/ex/chapter_006.htm

And God went on to speak to Moses and to say to him: “I am Jehovah. And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them.

Where is does the text tell us about Abrahams faith, scriptures please ? If anything i see complete lack of faith on at least three occasssions.

HE DOUBTED GOD COULD MAKE SARAHS PREGNANCY.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/ge/chapter_017.htm

And God went on to say to Abraham: “As for Sar´ai your wife, you must not call her name Sar´ai, because Sarah is her name. And I will bless her and also give you a son from her; and I will bless her and she shall become nations; kings of peoples will come from her.” At this Abraham fell upon his face and began to laugh and to say in his heart: “Will a man a hundred years old have a child born, and will Sarah, yes, will a woman ninety years old give birth?”

SARAHS ABDUCTION BY PHARAOH

http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/ge/chapter_012.htm

So it happened that, as soon as A´bram entered Egypt, the Egyptians got to see the woman, that she was very beautiful. And the princes of Phar´aoh also got to see her and they began praising her to Phar´aoh, so that the woman was taken to the house of Phar´aoh. And he treated A´bram well on her account, and he came to have sheep and cattle and asses and menservants and maidservants and she-asses and camels.

Where is Abraham's faith ? Doesnt matter god rescued Sarah in the following text. I call bullshit.

ABRAHAM DOUBTS GOD AND GIVES SARAH TO ABIMELECH

http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/ge/chapter_020.htm

So A·bim´e·lech got up early in the morning and proceeded to call all his servants and to speak of all these things in their ears. And the men got very much afraid. Then A·bim´e·lech called Abraham and said to him: “What have you done to us, and what sin have I committed against you, in that you have brought upon me and my kingdom a great sin? Deeds that should not have been done you have done in connection with me.” And A·bim´e·lech went on to say to Abraham: “What did you have in view in that you have done this thing?” To this Abraham said: “It was because I said to myself, ‘Doubtless there is no fear of God in this place, and they will certainly kill me because of my wife.’

For the second time, even after God promised him in 17 the promised land, and the humbling of Pharaoh, Abraham again shows no faith. How does one explain this lack of faith ?

ROMANS

Im sorry the author of (its not Paul BTW) Romans is talking bullshit, i have shown on three occassions that Abraham's faith failed, in scripture. We can safely ignore the text here and conclude its wrong for ourselves.