i remember years ago maybe 20 years ago an elder or co was giving a talk on armaggeddon and he said that we know we are close to the end when homosexuals get the same rights as straight people.
he said jehovah would never allow gay people to marry because it would be an abomination and he would do the same as sodom and gommorrah.
what if a member of a gay couple decides to become a jws would he or she have to get a divorce?.
book:
I remember years ago maybe 20 years ago an elder or CO was giving a talk on Armaggeddon and he said that we know we are close to the end when homosexuals get the same rights as straight people.
mP:
Gays have been legaly able to get married for centuries. they only lost those rights in recent times. You can search wiki for countless articles of gay marriage in past cultures. In fact it was the common practice.
there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".
one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.
"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".
Kepler:
However, starting with the data point that Josephus identifies three belief systems about immortality among his countrymen and then we compare widespread Christian beliefs supposedly derived from these... Maybe it is worth examining the details here.
mP:
Josephus also tells us that the temple had a zodiac wheel, and that the 12 tribes never existed and are equivalent to the zodiac as well. I agree there was never one uniting jewish religion, they too had variations each with their own identities. Each of these religions copied ideas from their neighbours. After the exile in Babylon, zoroastrian ideas were blended into judaism. Everybody claims the bible is against astrology, but J tells us that is simply untrue and the entire religion is a variation on astrotheology.
there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".
one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.
"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".
Kepler
If Judea is a passive absorber, then score afterlife and one God from the Egypt;
mP:
Just look at judaism customs and temples. They are straight copies of their neighbours. The architecture of the temple was a copy of other temples. The number of columns, the artwork within, cherubims and other magical creatures. Their language, alphabet or writing system, numbering, calendars and more are copies.
Kepler:
Yet the coinciding features in Noah's flood in Genesis and that in Gilgamesh
mP:
While N is a copy of Gilgamesh it is also a copy of other stories with other additions and edits. If you look at those stories you will just how much is copied, The problem is even the numbers and other details which we dont seee as significant are important. The names of N's sons for example are variations of other mythic characters. To us they are just names but to the ancients it would be evident that the bible account is a hebrew copy of another local story.
I think its not IF judea was a passive absorber, just the examples that i give show it was. I think the problem is to prove that it WAS NOT. If we ignore the religious aspect, everything else is very much similar to neighbours, why should religion be any different ?
there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".
one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.
"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".
kepler
Regarding the veracity of Josephus, I find this an interesting anecdote. In chapter 7, a few pages after the description of the three "parties" and their beliefs, Josephus continues to describe reasons for the coming war. One was an increase in banditry; another was roving "zealots" who spread new beliefs and had large followings. At about 40 AD there was one led by an "Egyptian" which camped out with supposedly "30,000" followers on the Mount of Olives before Roman guards were called in to disperse them. In Acts 21:38, Paul was mistaken for this man, but his numbers of followers were marked ( more reasonably?) at 4000. A number of crowds and casualty lists recorded by Josephus sound similarly off by a magnitude or two. But there are differences in marking an event such as armies clashing that day and taking a tabulation of the size of the forces arrayed and the numbers fallen. Seldom have ancient historians underestimated these figures.
mP:
Mark as you have noted is writing about the destruction of Jerusalem. The evil jews are the rebels who want to fight, die, and kill in their quest to liberate judea. Notice Jesus encourages them to lay down their weapons, pay their taxes and be good slaves. Intersting the leaders of two of those groups were called John (the favourite apostle), Simon ( the primary apostle). Judas iscariot is a play on one of those rebel groups , Sicari. etc. John and his brother are called sons of thunder, another refernce to one of the rebel groups. there are plenty more in the gospels.
there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".
one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.
"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".
kepler:
John, in the book of Revelation, also encounters an angel whose brightness and glory are so intense that John falls on his face to worship him
mP:
John is talking about the sun. Jehovah is the sun, Jesus is also the sun. If you re-read the text where Jesus is spoken of in supernatural termns and substitute sun for jesus it makes perfect sense. The sun comes in clouds, the sun is the light of the world, it dies and is resurrected every spring for us, it gives us life, it walks on water (its shadow) etc.
there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".
one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.
"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".
kepler:
Relying on Josephus’ explanation of what the Jews, which were in a high state of apostasy, believed most likely is not pertinent to what the Christians believed.
mP:
Do you have any proof for early xianity in the first century ? its even harder to find any archeology that is really xian. Sure there are a few symbols of donkeys and crosses but that hardly tells us they were comparable to modern xians. Rather thety were closer to the pagans. Over time they evolved into what we have today.
Read up about Justin Martyr who wrote many apologies including one where he admits xians worship the sun just like they do.
Just look at xmas, how could it be adopted if the dating and belief or association with the sun was so offensive to xians. its far easier to appreciate that it was not any different. I mean if xians today were told to celebrate some day an it was the birthday or Zeus, would it fly ? Of course not, it can only work if xians already acknowledge Zeus as being another form of their own god. The early church fathers admit this.
there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".
one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.
"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".
kepler:
On the other hand, Hades is a Greek term. Combine with demons and you have "hell".
mP:
??? i have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion.
there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".
one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.
"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".
Kepler:
Very few sources will commit to saying that any ancient Hebrew beliefs came from anywhere beside their scriptures.
mP:
Thats complete untrue. There are many books with go into depth and compare jewish beliefs with those of their neighbours. Practically every story in the OT has a parallel in an older neighbour's tradition. A quick look at the big stories are all copies, namely Moses, Noah.
Im reading a book by Gary Greenberg where he shows every story starting at Genesis is a copy. Jacob and the ladder to heaven, the twelve tribes, Isaac and the link Osiris, Samson. Judaism is anything but unique. Just look at their names for God they are copies. Their writing is a copy, calendar, everything is a copy.
1. cut off funding to the military, stand back and watch, aka, the ron paul position.
2. back up the military in putting down the muslim brotherhood ( the mb being the incubator for extremist jihadists).
3. back the muslim brotherhood (the us backed the morsi/muslim brotherhood originally).
Considering the military shooting the people uses US arms or funding to buy those arms, i think the EGyptians dont need any more help from America.
there's a lot of rumble in the grapevine of jws that there difinitely is a new bible that 'mother' is releasing at the upcoming agm.. it would be awesome if we could get a sneak peek at some of the changes.
sure would be nice if some of the lurkers on this forum who work at bethel in the writing, shipping or printing department could help us out.
this would really irritate 'mom'!.
It seems logical that the GB would release a new Bible at their annual meeting. A
mP:
Of course, its a money spinner better tell the AGM.
