journey-on: It must be that "truth" serum I took.
proplog2
JoinedPosts by proplog2
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62
Having a guilty conscience and maybe I should go back to JW
by hambeak ini have read the new wt and am thinking of going back.
i believe a lot of the teachings and i see what is going on .
i just feel a lot of confusion right now.
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62
Having a guilty conscience and maybe I should go back to JW
by hambeak ini have read the new wt and am thinking of going back.
i believe a lot of the teachings and i see what is going on .
i just feel a lot of confusion right now.
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proplog2
Hambeak: In about 2 months you will have a lot of company from others on this board. I wouldn't be surprised if Simon shuts this board down himself. So get a head start. Go back to the meetings. Put your life style on hold.
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What will be the reaction in the congregation when...
by JH inwe have many older brothers and sisters in our congregation, and surely the same in many congregations all around the world.. what will be the reaction in the congregations when all these older ones, who were sure they wouldn't die before the end, pass away and leave a vacuum in the congregation.. i don't wish these older brothers and sisters harm, but eventually they will be too old to follow and they will die away.. it won't be the same anymore, when they see these old pillars who stood so faithfully crumble due to old age.. .
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proplog2
reformatted:
Journey On:
Too Vague. That's all you can say? Just TOO VAGUE. Would YOU mind being more SPECIFIC YOURSELF?
For instance when you are referring to the context of the Bible do you realize that Jesus was doing just that. He told them "you used to be told that it was eye for an eye". That was the old context. "You used to be told that you had to love your neighbor but... (new context) ...I'm telling you to love your enemy!!"
So, in the context of "THE BIBLE" Jesus changed a few things. How dare you come at me about context when one of the conditions you made for my response is that I use only Jesus' words and forget about Paul etc.
Here is how you set this up (because you are so concerned about context)
"could you give me the scriptures where JESUS condemned war under ANY circumstances? I would like Jesus' words....not Paul's, or John's, or Timothy's, or any other man. Only the words from Jesus' mouth. I will rethink my stance."
A time for war and a time for peace. YES! And Jesus indicated that his followers would leave the vengeance part up to the one who has the right to give and take lives.
Jesus gave his life. This was for an example. And he got his life back. ...but you give your opinion which is
"under some circumstances war is permissable"
By this I am guessing you believe its OK for humans to drop atomic bombs, or cluster bombs, drop napalm, infest farmers fields with explosive mines, impose co-lateral suffering on civilian populations either directly by killing or maiming little children, or starving them to death. ALL of this is OK because after all your enemy would do this to you too. -
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What will be the reaction in the congregation when...
by JH inwe have many older brothers and sisters in our congregation, and surely the same in many congregations all around the world.. what will be the reaction in the congregations when all these older ones, who were sure they wouldn't die before the end, pass away and leave a vacuum in the congregation.. i don't wish these older brothers and sisters harm, but eventually they will be too old to follow and they will die away.. it won't be the same anymore, when they see these old pillars who stood so faithfully crumble due to old age.. .
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proplog2
So sorry for my lousy formatting. Using fire fox.
wha happened: Imagine this situation. A young brother of 25 conducts a congregation bookstudy. Bookstudy conductors are supposed to know the appearance of their flock. So he notices that there is a sister who only gets 3 hours per month in service. He also knows that she has 7 kids all under 10 years of age. She has an alcoholic husband who is disfellowshipped and often unemployed. He can't go by her house because of the chaos there so he arranges to meet her at the home where she attends bookstudy. He then reads her a few scriptures about seeking first the kingdom and then presents her with a nicely ruled page with 7 columns for each day of the week and 32 rows of half hour intervals, and proceeds to construct a schedule that will allow her to spend more time in field service.
I was that young brother 35 years ago. I moved out of state. I don't remember that poor sisters name. She must be over 70 by now. I regret that incident.
So save your time. You don't need to look up some crazy incident or incidents. We all have been victims & persecutors of our fellow believers. BUT.... That has nothing to do with whether the organization as a whole is committed to and is exemplary in showing Christian love by 1. Spreading the Gospel 2. Avoiding Nationalism and its horrible wars all the while keeping close in mind the end of this world. Go ahead judge them for their imperfections.
There are now close to 7 million of these "misled" people. How hard should it be to come up with some nasty little tidbits to pass around here. But after you have finished sifting through the garbage
PLEASE show me another group of people you feel are more deserving of the label - "God's Special People".
You can eliminate all of those who have a modern history of Killing their fellow believers on the battle field. -
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What will be the reaction in the congregation when...
by JH inwe have many older brothers and sisters in our congregation, and surely the same in many congregations all around the world.. what will be the reaction in the congregations when all these older ones, who were sure they wouldn't die before the end, pass away and leave a vacuum in the congregation.. i don't wish these older brothers and sisters harm, but eventually they will be too old to follow and they will die away.. it won't be the same anymore, when they see these old pillars who stood so faithfully crumble due to old age.. .
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proplog2
Journey On: Too Vague. Just TOO VAGUE. That's all you can say? Would YOU mind being more SPECIFIC YOURSELF? For instance when you are referring to the context of the Bible do you realize that Jesus was doing just that. He told them "you used to be told that it was eye for an eye". That was the old context. "You used to be told that you had to love your neighbor but... (new context) ...I'm telling you to love your enemy!!" So, in the context of "THE BIBLE" Jesus changed a few things. How dare you come at me about context when one of the conditions you made for my response is that I use only Jesus' words and forget about Paul etc. Here is how you set this up (because you are so concerned about context) "could you give me the scriptures where JESUS condemned war under ANY circumstances? I would like Jesus' words....not Paul's, or John's, or Timothy's, or any other man. Only the words from Jesus' mouth. I will rethink my stance." A time for war and a time for peace. YES! And Jesus indicated that his followers would leave the vengeance part up to the one who has the right to give and take lives. Jesus gave his life. This was for an example. And he got his life back. ...but you give your opinion which is "under some circumstances war is permissable" By this I am guessing you believe its OK for humans to drop atomic bombs, or cluster bombs, drop napalm, infest farmers fields with explosive mines, impose co-lateral suffering on civilian populations either directly by killing or maiming little children, or starving them to death. ALL of this is OK because after all your enemy would do this to you too.
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39
What will be the reaction in the congregation when...
by JH inwe have many older brothers and sisters in our congregation, and surely the same in many congregations all around the world.. what will be the reaction in the congregations when all these older ones, who were sure they wouldn't die before the end, pass away and leave a vacuum in the congregation.. i don't wish these older brothers and sisters harm, but eventually they will be too old to follow and they will die away.. it won't be the same anymore, when they see these old pillars who stood so faithfully crumble due to old age.. .
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proplog2
wha happened: Imagine this situation. A young brother of 25 conducts a congregation bookstudy. Bookstudy conductors are supposed to know the appearance of their flock. So he notices that there is a sister who only gets 3 hours per month in service. He also knows that she has 7 kids all under 10 years of age. She has an alcoholic husband who is disfellowshipped and often unemployed. He can't go by her house because of the chaos there so he arranges to meet her at the home where she attends bookstudy. He then reads her a few scriptures about seeking first the kingdom and then presents her with a nicely ruled page with 7 columns for each day of the week and 32 rows of half hour intervals, and proceeds to construct a schedule that will allow her to spend more time in field service. I was that young brother 35 years ago. I moved out of state. I don't remember that poor sisters name. She must be over 70 by now. I regret that incident. So save your time. You don't need to look up some crazy incident or incidents. We all have been victims & persecutors of our fellow believers. BUT.... That has nothing to do with whether the organization as a whole is committed to and is exemplary in showing Christian love by 1. Spreading the Gospel 2. Avoiding Nationalism and its horrible wars all the while keeping close in mind the end of this world. Go ahead judge them for their imperfections. There are now close to 7 million of these "misled" people. How hard should it be to come up with some nasty little tidbits to pass around here. But after you have finished sifting through the garbage PLEASE show me another group of people you feel are more deserving of the label - "God's Special People". You can eliminate all of those who have a modern history of Killing their fellow believers on the battle field.
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39
What will be the reaction in the congregation when...
by JH inwe have many older brothers and sisters in our congregation, and surely the same in many congregations all around the world.. what will be the reaction in the congregations when all these older ones, who were sure they wouldn't die before the end, pass away and leave a vacuum in the congregation.. i don't wish these older brothers and sisters harm, but eventually they will be too old to follow and they will die away.. it won't be the same anymore, when they see these old pillars who stood so faithfully crumble due to old age.. .
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proplog2
wha happened: What's preventing leaders from committing sins. They are just people. Look at the hypocrisy of the Early Jewish Christians. They were openly prejudiced against Gentile Christians. Even after they were counseled. The Apostle Paul found that situation very frustrating. Some of the Apostles were trying to get special positions of authority from Jesus. Peter denied Christ. In spite of all of this you can expect something unique about a group of people who would get the label "the holy ones". Who are the people that are so different from the world that the world would use that "difference" against them to persecute them. Pretend the Bible is really true. Pretend there is some group that stands out. Who are they? Don't try to argue that there are some in all religions. That idea doesn't fit the model of Christians making up a flock with leaders who struggle to keep sheep-like ones in the fold.
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39
What will be the reaction in the congregation when...
by JH inwe have many older brothers and sisters in our congregation, and surely the same in many congregations all around the world.. what will be the reaction in the congregations when all these older ones, who were sure they wouldn't die before the end, pass away and leave a vacuum in the congregation.. i don't wish these older brothers and sisters harm, but eventually they will be too old to follow and they will die away.. it won't be the same anymore, when they see these old pillars who stood so faithfully crumble due to old age.. .
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proplog2
Journey: I would prefer to list ALL of the scriptures against war in the "New Testament" however there are enough principles set forth in the words of Jesus to argue against War. Sermon on the Mount: Happy are the peaceable since they will be called 'sons of God' (God's People) Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness sake. Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake. I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brothers will be accountable to the court of justice. You heard that it was said Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. However, I say to you : Do not resist him that is wicked. You heard that it was said you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy. However I say to you : Continueto love your enemies. Before Pontius Pilate John 18:35-37 "My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, ,my attendants woul have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews."
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39
What will be the reaction in the congregation when...
by JH inwe have many older brothers and sisters in our congregation, and surely the same in many congregations all around the world.. what will be the reaction in the congregations when all these older ones, who were sure they wouldn't die before the end, pass away and leave a vacuum in the congregation.. i don't wish these older brothers and sisters harm, but eventually they will be too old to follow and they will die away.. it won't be the same anymore, when they see these old pillars who stood so faithfully crumble due to old age.. .
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proplog2
Journey:
The just-war doctrine is merely an excuse to pursue war. In Jesus' day there was no police force in rural areas. It was filled with predators.
You had to be able to defend yourself.
War on the other hand is not self-defence - it is national defence. And there is no earthly nation that Christians ought to defend.
If Christians refused to go to war there would never had been a NAZI Germany because Christians would have refused to do Hitlers bidding.
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39
What will be the reaction in the congregation when...
by JH inwe have many older brothers and sisters in our congregation, and surely the same in many congregations all around the world.. what will be the reaction in the congregations when all these older ones, who were sure they wouldn't die before the end, pass away and leave a vacuum in the congregation.. i don't wish these older brothers and sisters harm, but eventually they will be too old to follow and they will die away.. it won't be the same anymore, when they see these old pillars who stood so faithfully crumble due to old age.. .
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proplog2
NMG:
You assert that SINCE: Some Jehovah's Witnesses have committed sins THEREFORE: they can't be God's People.
This is the same as saying that it is permissable to disqualify ANY religion whose members committ sins.
Your selective application of this general rule to JW's shows you have a perverted way of sifting through relevant information.
So at the very least you are expressing a prejudiced view. And unfortunately this prejudiced view is the dominant view on this discussion board.
If it was expected that 100% of its members are to be free of sin then why would we find these two scriptures:
2 Peter 2:2 Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively.
1 Cor. 5:1 Actually fornication is reported among you, and such fornication as is not even among the nations...
So you have a big task. Find some organization that is without any kind of sin.
But there is ONE sin that has been facilitated by so-called Christians - Killing on the battlefield. And that's the worst sin that has plagued mankind. Don't come up with the wars of the Israelites. Jesus changed that. Of course Christendom missed that - or more probably ignore that.