Interesting point to add to my collection.
Let's see, Christ said: "You will be witnesses of me."
You pointed out they were called Christians by divine providence.
Something else I recently found: Even God is a witness of Christ. See 1 John 5:9.
leaving_quietly
JoinedPosts by leaving_quietly
-
17
the name Jehovahs Witnesses
by Crazyguy inok so rutherford came up with the idea to change the name of the true religion of god to jehovah's witnesses based in isaiah 43. and of course ever since the rank and file witnesses have lovingly thought of themselves as gods chosen people.
well some one frogot to mention that in chapter 62 of isaiah gods says his true followers will be called by a new name.
yes newer then the old name almost 20 chapters ago.
-
-
-
97
Unconfirmed 2014 Year Book Numbers - Peak Pubs, Baptized, Hrs, Reg Pio & Studies
by OwnAccord ini bethelite sent this email out - can't really give out names.
we wrote these figures as quickly as possible, but could not keep up 100%).
you get to check these figures out when you get your 2014 yearbook.
-
-
leaving_quietly
Last year, there was a peak of 7,782,346 publishers with an average of 7,538,994 preaching each month. That's a difference of 243,342. The number baptized was 268,777, so in reality, they only had an increase of 25,425 publishers. I suspect we'll see something similar this year, maybe 26-28K more actual publishers than those in name only.
For this year, looks like over 6600 hours spent on average to bring a person to baptism, 277 full 24-hour days. This is actually an increase, too. Last year, it was 6500 hours for each one, 271 full 24-hour days. Six more full days, on average, to bring someone to baptism. This sounds like it's going in the wrong direction.
-
6
Praying in your Heart vs. Out Load
by bruh inif i'm not mistaken- are there more "out loud" prayers in the bible than.
in your heart prayers ??
does the bible say which is more acceptable??.
-
-
leaving_quietly
What were Christs' instructions?
Matt 6:5,6: “Also, when YOU pray, YOU must not be as the hypocrites; because they like to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the broad ways to be visible to men. Truly I say to YOU, They are having their reward in full. You, however, when you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret; then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you."
Why would you need to go into your private room and shut your door to pray if you can simply pray silently.Also, the example set by Christ was that he prayed out loud. He would go off a little distance and pray, but apparently within earshot of others (or others followed him and got close enough to hear). Otherwise, how could his prayers have been recorded for us to read?
Of course, silent prayers are acceptable, too, and even necessary sometimes.
Rom 8:26,27: In like manner the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the [problem of] what we should pray for as we need to we do not know, but the spirit itself pleads for us with groanings unuttered. Yet he who searches the hearts knows what the meaning of the spirit is, because it is pleading in accord with God for holy ones.
Personally, I pray silently most of the time because I don't really have a private room to go into. When no one else is at home, I might pray out loud.
-
7
Purpose of witnessing and preaching?
by leaving_quietly in1 timothy 2:1-7. first of all, then, i urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness.
3 this is fine and acceptable in the sight of our savior, god, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
5 for there is one god, and one mediator between god and men, a man, christ jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for allthis is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.
-
-
leaving_quietly
Scriptural evidence for the ministry, yes. Scriptural evidence that all Christians should be preachers? Let's take your references one by one:
(Isaiah 61:1) . . .The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me to tell good news to the meek ones. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to those taken captive and the wide opening [of the eyes] even to the prisoners;
Prophecy applied specifically to Christ (he applied it to himself)
(Matthew 9:35) . . .And Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the kingdom . . .
Who was preaching? Jesus.
(Matthew 24:14) . . .And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
Doesn't answer by whom.
(Matthew 28:19) . . .Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations. . .
Spoken to whom? Those he met in Galilee. There are differences of opinions as to how many Christ was talking to: the 11 or 500.
(Mark 16:15) . . .And he said to them: "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
Who is "them"? Specifically, the 11 (verse 14). Incidentally, this is part of the long conclusion of Mark 16, now removed from the RNWT.
(Luke 9:2) And so he sent them forth to preach the kingdom of God
Who is "them"? Specifically, the 12. Noteworthy, you left off the rest of the verse here, so if this applies to everyone, then everyone must also do what the rest of the verse says. The verse, in its entirety says: "And so he sent them forth to preach the kingdom of God and to heal".
(1 Corinthians 9:16) . . .If, now, I am declaring the good news, it is no reason for me to boast, for necessity is laid upon me. Really, woe is me if I did not declare the good news!
When does "I" translate to "everyone"? Also, Paul was appointed to preach.
(Colossians 1:25-28)...I became a minister of this [congregation] in accordance with the stewardship from God which was given me in YOUR interest to preach the word of God fully, the sacred secret that was hidden from the past systems of things and from the past generations. But now it has been made manifest to his holy ones, to whom God has been pleased to make known what are the glorious riches of this sacred secret among the nations. It is Christ in union with YOU, the hope of [his] glory. He is the one we are publicizing, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man complete in union with Christ.
Same thing: when does "I" translate to "everyone"? Who is "we"? Answer in verse 1: Paul and Timothy. When does "we" translate to "you all" or "everyone" or "every follower of Christ" or "all true Christians"?
(Titus 1:2-3) . . .upon the basis of a hope of the everlasting life which God, who cannot lie, promised before times long lasting, whereas in his own due times he made his word manifest in the preaching. . .
You're too funny. Leaving out the rest of the verse: ". . . made his word manifest in the preaching with which I was entrusted, under command of our Savior, God"
(Philippians 1:15) . . .True, some are preaching the Christ through envy and rivalry, but others also through goodwill.
Interesting verses here. Shows that anyone CAN preach, if they want to. The point Paul was making is that whomever is preaching the Christ, the job is getting done. I would never say someone CAN'T preach if they wanted to. This also indicates that JWs don't necessarily have a monopoly on preaching.
(2 Timothy 4:1-2) . . .I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is destined to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his kingdom, preach the word, be at it urgently in favorable season, in troublesome season, reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all long-suffering and [art of] teaching.
Who is Paul writing to? One person: Timothy.
(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house.
Who was Paul talking to? Elders! He had them come down to Miletus from Ephesus. This was preaching in the congregation. And again, who is doing the preaching? Paul. One appointed to do so. This does not prove at all that it's the job of everyone to do so.
(Acts 28:30-31) . . .So he remained for an entire two years in his own hired house, and he would kindly receive all those who came in to him, preaching the kingdom of God to them and teaching the things concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with the greatest freeness of speech, without hindrance.
Again, Paul was appointed to preach.
(Romans 10:8-15) . . .But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart"; that is, the "word" of faith, which we are preaching. For if you publicly declare that ‘word in your own mouth,’ that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation. For the Scripture says: "None that rests his faith on him will be disappointed." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all, who is rich to all those calling upon him. For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: "How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!"
This one was part of my proof texts in argument FOR all preaching, though even then, it's not clear at all in what Paul is saying, so it's iffy at best.
(1 Timothy 4:16) . . .Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.
Letter was written specifically to Timothy.
(1 Thessalonians 2:4) . . .but, just as we have been proved by God as fit to be entrusted with the good news, so we speak, as pleasing, not men, but God, who makes proof of our hearts.
"We" = Paul and Silvanus and Timothy? Or Paul and whoever else was with him whom he was referring to when they were treated bady in Phillipi? This still doesn't charge all Christians to preach. It just says that "we have been proved by God as fit to be entrusted with the good news", speaking about himself and others with him.
(1 Corinthians 9:22)...to the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak. I have become all things to people of all sorts, that I might by all means save some.
"I" = Paul
(1 Peter 3:15)...But sanctify the Christ as Lord in YOUR hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of YOU a reason for the hope in YOU, but doing so together with a mild temper and deep respect.
"Ready to make a defense" does not mean "go out and preach to everyone". This verse is speaking about what one would do if one were suffering for the sake of righteousness (verse 14).
(Acts 1:8) but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth."
Who is YOU? Everyone? Perhaps. Perhaps I should make this part of the proof texts in argument FOR.
(Romans 10:18) Nevertheless I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, "into all the earth their sound went out, and to the extremities of the inhabited earth their utterances."
Not even sure how to apply this one, so I withhold commenting for now.
(2 Corinthians 4:3-4) . . .If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.
"We" does not equal "everyone"
(Romans 11:13) Now I speak to YOU who are people of the nations. Forasmuch as I am, in reality, an apostle to the nations, I glorify my ministry,
"I", "my" does not equal "everyone"
(Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in mid heaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,
JWs use this to apply to the preaching, stating that the angels are involved. Maybe they are, but this verse says "angel", singular. Still doesn't say "everyone".
(Romans 1:15-16) . . .so there is eagerness on my part to declare the good news also to YOU there in Rome. For I am not ashamed of the good news; it is, in fact, God’s power for salvation to everyone having faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek;
"I" = Paul
(1 Corinthians 9:16) . . .If, now, I am declaring the good news, it is no reason for me to boast, for necessity is laid upon me. Really, woe is me if I did not declare the good news!
"I" = Paul. And, of course, he would say "woe is me" since he was appointed to preach!
(Acts 20:24) . . .Nevertheless, I do not make my soul of any account as dear to me, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received of the Lord Jesus, to bear thorough witness to the good news of the undeserved kindness of God.
"I" = Paul
My conclusion: There is no question that preaching has scriptural precedent and emphasis. The question is: by whom? Only a few verses remotely indicate that ALL Christians should be preachers, and even some of them are questionable as to whether that is so or not. Most verses don't indicate one way or another, and some verses clearly indicate that only SOME would be preachers, those that have the gift.
-
7
Purpose of witnessing and preaching?
by leaving_quietly in1 timothy 2:1-7. first of all, then, i urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness.
3 this is fine and acceptable in the sight of our savior, god, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
5 for there is one god, and one mediator between god and men, a man, christ jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for allthis is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.
-
-
leaving_quietly
Crazyguy: Verse 4 and verse 6 both use the same Greek word for "all" (slightly different context, but same word. How can “all” (or “all sorts of”) apply to everyone in verse 4 when “all” in verse 6 only applies to the 144,000? There is no indication in these verses that verse 6 has a different group in mind. The Greek word in verse 4 and verse 6 for "all" is the same, pantas/panton, both Strong’s 3956. See http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/2-4.htm and http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/2-6.htm and http://biblesuite.com/greek/3956.htm.
As for preaching:
Statement: Preaching is a responsibility for every individual.
Proof texts:
Eze 3:17-21 - warning someone wicked
Rom 10:14,15 - how, in turn will they hear without someone to preach?
1 Tim 4:16 - Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you. (Who was being talked to here? The whole Christian congregation? Or just one person?)
Luke 19:40 - I tell YOU, If these remained silent, the stones would cry out.
2 Tim 4:2 - preach the word, be at it urgently in favorable season, in troublesome season, reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all long-suffering and [art of] teaching (Who was being talked to here? The whole Christian congregation? Or just one person?)Texts that disprove:
Rom 12:6,7 - Since, then, we have gifts differing according to the undeserved kindness given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the faith proportioned [to us]; or a ministry, [let us be] at this ministry
2 Cor 8:4 - ministry destined for the holy ones
2 Cor 9:1 - Now concerning the ministry that is for the holy ones
Eph 4:11 - some as evangelizers
1 Tim 2:7 - For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle
James 3:1 - not many of you should become teachers
1 Pet 4:11 - if anyone ministers, [let him minister] as dependent on the strength that God supplies -
7
Purpose of witnessing and preaching?
by leaving_quietly in1 timothy 2:1-7. first of all, then, i urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness.
3 this is fine and acceptable in the sight of our savior, god, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
5 for there is one god, and one mediator between god and men, a man, christ jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for allthis is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.
-
-
leaving_quietly
1 Timothy 2:1-7
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness. 3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.
This is a crucial text, and one JWs don't look too closely at as it completely tears down much of why they exist. JWs believe that Christ is the mediator for ONLY the 144,000. There are plenty of topics on this forum discussing this, so I won't address that here. However, I want to call out something else that isn't quite so obvious unless reading this in context, and it has everything to do with preaching.
1. Verse 6: this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time. WTS has focused on the latter part (in its own due time (or particular time in the ONWT), attributing that to today), however, they have NEVER focused on "this is what is to be witnessed to". So, what is? That Christ is the mediator between God and men, and that Christ gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.
2. Verse 7: For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle. Paul was APPOINTED a preacher. It was an assignment from Christ. This dispels completely the idea that all should be preachers. Also, his purpose as a preacher was about the mediatorship of the Christ and Christ a ransom for all.
WTS contradicts itself, though. Verse 3 says "that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth." WTS believes that "all sorts of people" are truly that, all people, but "between God and men" is really 'between God and the 144,000'. Notice these comments from w73 2/15 p.106 par. 6:
From this, what “sorts” of men are denied an opportunity to be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth? None! So all persons should take advantage of the divine offer. No person should think so highly of himself that he does not take advantage of God’s provision, and, at the same time, no person should think so lowly of himself that he feels inadequate to receive and learn the truth and have the “corresponding ransom for all” eventually applied in his behalf so that he is saved from his inheritance of imperfection, sin and death. This too is important. -
30
John 3:16 - "believe" or "exercise faith?" Same thing?
by Faithful Witness ini recently asked my jw mother, if she believed that jesus died for her sins.
(john 3:16).
she agreed, but then added the jw party line, "you have to exercise faith also.
-
-
leaving_quietly
The WTS version of "EXERCISE FAITH" is all about works, but not works according to Paul or James. Both Paul and James viewed works as 'works of the spirit' (aka 'fruitage of the spirit'). Neither attributed works to stuff like preaching, meetings, etc.
See this: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/248990/1/James-2-26-faith-without-works-is-dead
-
48
Satan thrown to earth "about" 1914?
by wearewatchingyouman inso i'm thumbing through the new "silver sword" and i notice that in the appendix under "message of the bible" that it says, "about 1914 jesus hurls the serpent satan to the earth...." i can't remeber ever hearing the word "about" and 1914 placed together before in regards to this event.
are there any jwapologists, or anyone else for that matter, who have an explanation for this?.
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/appendix-b/message-of-the-bible/.
-
-
leaving_quietly
The WTS teaches that the battle continued on for some years starting in 1914 and ending approximately in 1918.
All the while, Jehovah and Jesus came down to earth to their spiritual temple to inspect things, clean it up and appoint the FDS in 1919. Guess they were busy those 3 1/2 years.
-
26
No more district assemblies in Tri-Cities. News article
by Indian Larry infor years the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses has held a regional convention in the tri-cities, attracting about 16,000 of the faithful who spend an estimated $8.6 million while in town.. .
but they won't be coming in 2014.. "what they told me is the decision has been made nationally to downsize the number of conventions from 400 to 100. they're simply consolidating," said kris watkins, president and ceo of the tri-cities visitor & convention bureau in kennewick.. .
read more here: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/08/01/2500842/jehovahs-witnesses-convention.html#storylink=cpy .
-
-
leaving_quietly
And now we know why. International Convention to be held in Seattle in 2014. No DC in Tacoma, WA, either. Expecting over 40,000 in attendance. That would take in all the Tacoma and Tri-Cities conventions, I would imagine.
-
49
my disassociation letter
by unstopableravens indear elders at%^** congregation, november 1, 2013. .
as you know ive been a member of your congregation for many years.
throughout the last several years i have had the opportunity to get to know many of you personally and i can truly say i have love for all of you.
-
-
leaving_quietly
Can you state why you feel Michael is not Jesus? I've found both sides of the argument compelling, so I'm undecided on this issue, though I strongly lean toward him not being. It makes no sense that the entire book of Revelation names Christ by name EXCEPT in one verse. Sounds like a serously faulty argument. I'd love to be sure one way or the other just to add it to my growing list of things.
Totally enjoyed the letter. Saved it aside for when I have more time to digest it.