Posts by leaving

6

Revisions to the Faithful & Discreet Slave.

by Ben131895 in

http://avoidjw.org/2015/12/revisions-faithful-discreet-slave/

leaving_quietly

In the interests of accuracy, #12 is not correct. The June 15, 2009 Watchtower does not say the slave refers only to the Governing Body. It still says the Governing Body REPRESENTS the slave. Even the article is titled, "The Faithful Steward and Its Governing Body."

It really wasn't until the annual meeting in October, 2012 where the idea of the Governing Body alone being the slave class came to fruition. An idea, incidentally, that was thoroughly discredited in 1981.

Some readers may feel that this is a rather sectarian view of matters. Or they may object to the idea that the “slave” and the “domestics” represent the same class, one as a composite body and the other as individuals. The objectors may argue that not all of Christ’s anointed disciples have a share in preparing the spiritual food, so that perhaps the “slave” pictures only the leading ones, and the “domestics” those they serve in the congregation. - w81 3/1 p. 24-25

BTW, I agree with your assessment that they started earlier than 2012 to put more emphasis on the Governing Body and less on the slave for the very purpose you stated in your response above to nelim.

32

No Soliciting signage and JW Policy

by Oubliette in

does anyone have a copy of the boe letter directing publishers to not go into apartment complexes and/or condominium complexes with no soliciting signs?

i ask because yesterday and buttheaded jw (that obviously had no idea who i am or my past) was knocking on doors in our condo complex.

he would have had to drive past a sign which clearly states "no solicitation or material distribution.".

leaving_quietly

I don't have a letter, but I was always a stickler on this one. I suspect it depends on where you are. In the U.S., it's like this:

- "No trespassing" on a personal residence means you're on your own if you ignore the sign.

- "No trespassing" for a community (e.g. apartment complex) means to tread carefully, and if management asks you to leave, to so immediately. The law really does not permit management to speak for the entire community. Only if the sign is at a single resident would it really hold any legal weight.

- "No soliciting" means nothing, really. If it says "no distribution" or "no religious groups," it's still not the same, but at least it gets the message across. There's no legal issue with this one, as far as I know.

Now, that said, our last CO talked specifically about "No soliciting" signs, and basically said that most people think it means the same as no trespassing, so just use caution. Maybe ask the householder if the sign applies to JWs.

I came across a door once where there was a "no soliciting" sign, but it was above me and off to the left-hand side of the door. I never saw it. The householder opened the door and pointed to the sign, at which point, I had to look up to even see it. I apologized and went on my way.

In short, "no soliciting" is not the same as "no trespassing". Best you put up your own "no trespassing" sign on your door, if you live in an apartment complex.

The only one that bugs me is the "no canvassing" ones. Some communities have a "no canvassing" ordinance. I talked to one of the elders about this a year or so ago and pointed out that when we go and leave our tracts, like for the convention or memorial invitations, we ARE canvassing. There's no two ways about it. We MUST obey the law. The elder didn't see it the same way I did.

8

2015-12-15-BOE-Memorial Outline Updated--Is More Money Being Implied Here Also?

by Atlantis in

2015-12-15-boe memorial outline updated.. .are they demanding more money even in the memorial outline?

you decide... page 1 number 4:.

(4) besides attending this meeting, what else must we do to show our appreciation for what christ has done for us?.page 2 under the heading:.

leaving_quietly

The Lord’s Evening Meal will be observed as long as Christians with the heavenly hope are on earth
[Read 1 Corinthians 11:26]
Once the Lord “comes,” he will take the last of the 144,000 home to be with him in heaven (Joh 14:1-3)
Those with the earthly hope will no longer observe the Memorial
Will not partake of the emblems then, so do not partake now

This logic is dumb. The "144,000" partake now, but will also stop. So, if they're going to stop then, they also should not partake now.

29

Local Needs part given after Ministerial Servant left the organization

by cappytan in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbb8rt2bem8.

some crazy cult language in this talk.. some highlights:.

18:15 - obey.

leaving_quietly

No...no one knew I was leaving until today.

Cappy, until today? Do tell... was there an announcement?

29

Local Needs part given after Ministerial Servant left the organization

by cappytan in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbb8rt2bem8.

some crazy cult language in this talk.. some highlights:.

18:15 - obey.

leaving_quietly

A talk like this, when I was fully in, would have had me further suppressing any questions I may have had. But now, if I were at the KH, I would have had to get up and go to the restroom just to calm down.

Those who question blood do NOT question the sanctity of blood. Never once have I seen that. They question whether the JW application of Acts 15:29 really applies to transfusions since that was never in the Mosaic Law. Only eating blood was at issue. It's because blood CAN BE life-saving that they question this in the spirit of Jesus' words: I want mercy, not sacrifice.

Who is blowing "winds of teaching?" The teaching of "generations" is one such wind. It changes every few years. "Apostates" aren't the ones blowing this wind. What about the authority of the FDS? I'm not sure anyone actually questions that teaching because the "authority" isn't the issue. The issue is the IDENTITY of the FDS, and just like "generations," that too, changes. What was once considered in opposition with respect to this, is now "the truth." (see w81 3/1 p. 24, 25.) Another "wind."

"Do not be led astray by various and strange teachings." (Heb 13:9) JW teachings are very strange in the eyes of other Christian religions. So, who is teaching these strange teachings?

39

Best Christmas Song?

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

a catchy little number this one!

curiously, this little known christmas song by perry como was actually the theme tune to the odessa file movie back in the 70's.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l1uddoh-yu.

so what have you got?.

leaving_quietly

My wife and I had an argument last year about the song, "Let It Snow." I argued that it was a winter song, not a Christmas song. She argued just the opposite. I downloaded the lyrics, and sure enough, not a single reference to anything Christmas-y in there.

And since we all know Wikipedia is accurate, fun fact:

"Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!", also known as "Let It Snow", is a song written by lyricist Sammy Cahn and composer Jule Styne in July 1945. It was written in Hollywood, California during a heat wave as Cahn and Styne imagined cooler conditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_It_Snow!_Let_It_Snow!_Let_It_Snow!#cite_note-pc3a-1

Also, http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=9832

14

Which one is the Anti-Christ wanna be?

by WireRider in

which one really thinks he is promised to be in charge of a "kingdom".for an "overlord"?

please tell me - i have questions.. i am crossing the entirely of unsanctioned/unauthorized/all kingdom hall entirely of my list.

it;s a narcissistic marketing plan.

leaving_quietly

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Some of the sentences don't make sense. But, one, in particular did, and it's a question I've wondered.

Who had a chat with God to say the WT will be in charge? Ever? Ever?

Russell claimed to be God's mouthpiece (w1906 7/15 p.229, as cited in Proclaimer's book, p. 143). Thinking on this, how can one be a mouthpiece for anyone without ever having heard what to say? At least with prophets like Isaiah or Jeremiah or other ones, the scriptures record that God told them to say what they said. But even Russell in that 1906 article claimed he didn't get any special revelations, visions, dreams, audible voice, etc. So, how did he get it? In his own words (source, http://www.youblisher.com/p/98284-Watchtower-year-1906/)

People should have known then that he was not to be followed. Luke 21:8: "He said: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them."

40

Our fade-gossip-elders calling

by All for show in

jw
friends

looking back we had been fading without even realizing it.

life happened...and we weren't regular.

then we woke up and have actively been fading for 9 months.

leaving_quietly

I'm sorry you're going through this @All for show.

My issue is just the opposite. I kind of have a different perspective now. I used to think that it would be awful if the elders came calling. Well, I guess I still do. But I've had such a weird experience with my fade that having them at least CALL would be something. I haven't been in service since March. I've skipped mid-week meetings since July, and now I'm starting to back off of Sunday meetings, too. No calls.

When I was taken off the sound department list, the elder in charge asked me if the brothers had spoken with me. I told him, "no." He said, "Well, I have to make up a new list and maybe you can be on it in the future." That was it.

In early September, an elder in passing told me that the group overseer and he would like to make a call on me and when was a good time? (I say "in passing" because we were in the restroom and he was using the facilities when he said this... tacky.) I told him to schedule it whenever and let me know. That was September. No calls. And I've talked to them at the KH many times since then. They've had EVERY opportunity to make an appointment.

Last month was CO visit. Typically, during CO visit, the inactive are called on. I am now inactive. Any call? Nope. And our congregation has very few inactive ones.

During my fade, for six or seven months I turned in my FS report with 0 hours. Each month. This month, I didn't turn in a report at all. I just noticed my name is no longer on the Field Service Groups list posted on the information board. It's protocol now that inactive ones are not included. Did the secretary call me? Nope. Text? Nope. Email? Nope. Does he talk to me at the meeting. Sure. No problem. How about the group overseer? Calls? Texts? Email? Nope. Nothing. Any asking of why I haven't been going in service or meetings slacking off? Nope.

My point is: while I would dread an actual visit, I'm kinda disturbed that there has been NO attempt whatsoever. It's not like they're blind to it. And I have a good rapport with all of them. So, what gives? I have no idea. At this point, my opinion is, if they want to talk to me now, that ship has sailed. They had ample opportunities over the past year, and they decided not to do any shepherding.

I've heard no gossip (not that I care,) thankfully.

25

New "most frustratingly addictive game ever" to play - agar.io

by Simon in

one of my kids got me hooked on this.

it's incredibly simple but also kind of fun and addictive.. you start as a small cell and need to eat things to grow.

that's pretty much the game.. of course as you get bigger you can eat smaller cells too ... and bigger ones can eat you.. as you get bigger you get slower but you can "eject mass" to shrink and speed you up (w key).

leaving_quietly

Hehe, yeah, it's fun to play. Too much clicking, though... messes with my wrist.

59

John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2

by Wonderment in

continued from part 1 (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5097191899136000/john-1-1-colossians-1-16-all-other-things):.

the nw translation and some of its unique renderings, like john 1.1- "a god," and colossians 1.16 - "all other things," have been consistently at the top of the most debated topics here in this forum and elsewhere from the beginning.

the anger felt by detractors of the nwt rendering of john 1.1 (a god) has diminished considerably if compared to the furious debates surrounding the verse that raged on during the 1950 thru 1970s.

leaving_quietly

I keep hearing how the NWT is more biased than other versions. All versions of the Bible show personal bias to a certain degree. The amount of bias varies from version to version. I keep seeing lists presented by various posters (of versions that show translators generally agreeing with each other) with the apparent purpose of pointing out how the NWT by being different is wrong.

Why do we pick on the NWT? Because that's the translation we are all familiar with, and we hung our entire belief system on what it said and how it was worded. A one word change, a change in placement of a comma, or anything like that can drastically change the meaning of a sentence, which, in turn, could drastically change a doctrinal teaching. Case in point: Luke 23:43's placement of the comma. I'm not debating this one... just pointing out that there is a lot of controversy in the placement of the comma in that verse with some translations done just like the NWT and some not done that way. That one punctuation mark makes a HUGE difference in what the verse is saying. I won't argue either way, so please don't start debating this one. I just use it as an example.

With the NWT, it does show a bias very clearly in a number of places. Since your OP was about Col 1:16, that's the one we were discussing for the most part. Another one I could point to is John 14:14 where the NWT omits the word "me," even though it is in the Greek, showing a bias that JWs believe that praying to Christ is wrong. Even the Kingdom Interlinear includes the word "me" in there.

Again, we pick on the NWT because we're most familiar with it. If we were of a different religion, we'd probably pick on a different translation. Just look at how many pick on the NIV, especially the 2011 version.

With that said, the NWT's Reference Bible is, in my opinion, a very valuable resource because of all the footnotes. It is one of many translations I refer to when researching a subject. The 2013 revision is a pretty big diversion from it, with the acknowledged goal being that it's a "witnessing Bible." So, the 2013 revision doesn't make it into my study tools, other than for comparison. And the 2013 revision injects bias into the book highlights at the beginning of each chapter (for example. referring to the "governing body" in the highlights for Acts.)

There may be some here who would rather toss the NWT and never use it again. I do not share that view. It's a tool for me to use. I do not place it at the top of my list, though.

With this post, I'm done with this thread. It's been mostly enjoyable to contribute to.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly