To build on what Sanchy said, there is a big difference between not associating / breaking bread with someone and not even saying a greeting. JWs lump 1 Cor 5:11 with 2 John 10. They say that if a person is unrepentently sinning, that person is actually an anti-christ. In fact, the RNWT has a cross reference on 1 Cor 5:2 to 2 John 10 to show that they do make this connection, stating that these do not "remain in the teaching of the Christ" (2 John 9). So, if someone has sex with someone else who is not their marriage mate and are unrepentent (according to three imperfect men who judge behind closed doors) they are deemed as not remaining in Christ's teaching, and thus to be completely shunned. Was that the teaching of the Christ? Did Christ teach that anyone should be shunned for such an act? What of Matthew 18:15-17? Expelled from the congregation, perhaps. Treated as dead? No.
leaving_quietly
JoinedPosts by leaving_quietly
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Is shunning unscriptual?
by MrTheocratic ininternational version 1 cor 5:11. but now i am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler.
do not even eat with such people.. if shunning is wrong.
.how does one explain this scripture?.
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leaving_quietly
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I just don't understand this, what am I missing???
by Greybeard inas i am watching this video about changes at bethel, the speaker said, "aren't we glad the faithful and discrete slave continues to make adjustments when necessary.
what about this change?
"finally, we examined why jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings did not occur in 1919 but will take place during the great tribulation" that is from this online watchtower article last paragraph: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/jesus-prophecy-last-days/ .
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leaving_quietly
Seems to me they're simply referring to themselves in the third person, like "The Jimmy" on Seinfeld.
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leaving_quietly
They were probably trying to portray the DFing as having taken place many years ago, back when they used the old-style announcement.
Ah, yes. You're right. She was DF'd for 15 years. Makes sense.
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leaving_quietly
Did anyone else notice the announcement from the platform? It said: "Sonia Erickson has been disfellowshipped." Are they going back to the old way of announcing? It should have been: "Sonia Ericson is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses."
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"Just don't overthink the truth"
by stuckinarut2 inso after almost a year of complete inactivity and non attendance, i ran into a nice brother from the local congregation.. after some nice chit-chat, he says "we really miss you and your family...etc...you were always the kind and supportive one, the approachable and encouraging one in the congregation.
your absence has confused so many".
i thanked him and said "oh no, no individual has stumbled us.
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leaving_quietly
Complete opposite advice to what Paul said to Timothy:
Ponder over these things; be absorbed in them, so that your advancement may be plainly seen by all people.
1 Tim 4:15 -
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Help - I'm going to be conducting the watchtower study
by Saltheart Foamfollower init looks like i'm going to have to take the watchtower study for a while so i thought i'd seek help.. i wont be outing myself or stating anything too controversial, but so far i have come up with the following tactics : 1) ask questions which will get people thinking even if it is about something insignificant - developing a questioning mind is the key to discovering ttat as far as i am concerned.
2) highlight any extreme points so that some might realise they are extreme.
3) highlight any good points - helping others in need for example - just because it is the right thing to do.. if anyone has any general comments which could help, please post them here.
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leaving_quietly
If you have to do this, and you want to get them thinking just a little, take note of any secular quotes, and ask: "Did anyone do any personal research on where this quote was from?"
Or if the quotes have the ellipsis in them, you can ask, "Did anyone look up the full quote by this (scientist, physician, whatever.)?"
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Beards - September 2016 Watchtower
by Listener inthe issue of whether beards are acceptable or not is addressed in the september 2016 watchtower - well sort of.
it is as clear as mud as to whether they are allowed in places like australia, usa and britain.. 17. what are some factors that may affect whether a brother wears a beard?17 what about the propriety of brothers wearing a beard?
the mosaic law required men to wear a beard.
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leaving_quietly
'well, when was the last time a president of the united states had a beard?'
An entire culture is based on one person? Hmm.
Interesting read... http://uspolitics.about.com/od/biographies/a/Why-Arent-There-Many-Bearded-Politicians.htm
P.S. Oliver Queen, a.k.a. The Green Arrow, just became stand-in Mayor of Star City on the TV Show, Arrow. Wears a beard. This IS cultural norm these days in the U.S.
I would not at all be surprised if this paragraph stirs up a wave of beard-wearing JWs, each interpreting cultural norms their own way.
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Beards - September 2016 Watchtower
by Listener inthe issue of whether beards are acceptable or not is addressed in the september 2016 watchtower - well sort of.
it is as clear as mud as to whether they are allowed in places like australia, usa and britain.. 17. what are some factors that may affect whether a brother wears a beard?17 what about the propriety of brothers wearing a beard?
the mosaic law required men to wear a beard.
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leaving_quietly
The Mosaic Law required couples to maintain chastity until marriage.
Of course, I realize this is satire, but fun fact... the Mosaic Law said very little about two unmarried people having sexual relations who were not of the same family. It had a whole lot to say about incestual relations, but regarding people not married and not related to each other, it's pretty silent. The two exceptions I've found are: don't have sex with a menstruating woman (Lev 18:19), and don't have sex with another man's wife. (Lev 18:22)
Take a look at Leviticus 18 where it describes such things.
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The starting event of the Watchtower's "70 Years"?
by Doug Mason inaccording to the watchtower society, which event marked the start of the "70 years".
on which day and month did that event occur?.
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leaving_quietly
Ha! I was after the other 70 years.
I think you found the answer. October 1, 607 B.C.E. Repeatedly stated, including Insight vol. 1 p. 463: "Hence the count of the 70 years of desolation must have begun about October 1, 607 B.C.E., ending in 537 B.C.E."
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The starting event of the Watchtower's "70 Years"?
by Doug Mason inaccording to the watchtower society, which event marked the start of the "70 years".
on which day and month did that event occur?.
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leaving_quietly
The 4th of Ab, 455 B.C.E.
In Nisan (March-April) of the 20th year of Artaxerxes’ rule (455 B.C.E.), Nehemiah petitioned the king: “If your servant seems good before you, . . . send me to Judah, to the city of the burial places of my forefathers, that I may rebuild it.” (Ne 2:1, 5) The king granted permission, and Nehemiah made the long journey from Shushan to Jerusalem. On about the fourth of Ab (July-August), after making a night inspection of the walls, Nehemiah gave the command to the Jews: “Come and let us rebuild the wall of Jerusalem, that we may no longer continue to be a reproach.” (Ne 2:11-18) Thus, “the going forth of the word” to rebuild Jerusalem, as authorized by Artaxerxes, was put into effect by Nehemiah in Jerusalem that same year. This clearly establishes 455 B.C.E. as the year from which the 70 weeks would begin to count. it-2 p. 900Interestingly, earlier in this same Insight volume, it mentions that the 20th year may not have started until Tishri (September/October) by Nehemiah's reckoning:
The month of Chislev (November-December) of a certain 20th year is the reference point with which the historical narrative begins. (Ne 1:1) As is evident from Nehemiah 2:1, this 20th year must be that of Artaxerxes’ reign. Obviously, the 20th year in this case is not reckoned as starting in Nisan (March-April), for Chislev of the 20th year could not then precede Nisan (mentioned at Ne 2:1) of the same 20th year. So it may be that Nehemiah used his own count of time, reckoning the lunar year as beginning with Tishri (September-October), which month Jews today recognize as the beginning of their civil year. Another possibility is that the reign of the king was reckoned from the actual date that the monarch ascended the throne. This could be so even though the Babylonian scribes continued to reckon the years of the Persian king’s reign on their customary basis of a Nisan-to-Nisan count, as their cuneiform tablets show they did. it-2 p. 487-488
But, to answer your question, Ab 4, 455 B.C.E.