Posts by leaving

51

Why are anniversaries allowed but not birthdays?

by hyperpen in

the scripture quotes aside, i was always told that we don't celebrate birthdays because that is a celebration of the self, which has no place in jehovah's organization.

then why celebrate anniversaries?

anniversary celebrations are about the joining of two selves, isn't that twice as selfish?.

leaving_quietly

Simple. Have you ever read about someone being beheaded on their anniversary? I rest my case.

Heh... This reasoning from WT is ridiculous. In the first account, the chief baker and cupbearer were IN PRISON with Joseph because they "sinned against their lord, the king of Egypt." (Gen 40:1). On Pharaoh's birthday, the cupbearer resumed his duties and the baker was killed. Why? Apparently, Pharaoh carried out capital punishment. The baker did SOMETHING to warrant being put to death. Maybe during their time in prison, it was discovered that the cupbearer was not at fault, so was exhonerated, while the baker had to bear the punishment of death.

In the case of John the Baptist, Herod's birthday was simply "a convenient day" for his wife to carry out her nefarious plans. (Mark 6:21)

Interestingly in the case of Pharaoh's birthday, both the baker and the cupbearer had dreams three days prior that Joseph interpreted accurately. Where did those dreams come from? Where did the interpretation come from? Did God care that it was Pharaoh's birthday, or did God use that fact to attempt to assist Joseph?

51

Why are anniversaries allowed but not birthdays?

by hyperpen in

the scripture quotes aside, i was always told that we don't celebrate birthdays because that is a celebration of the self, which has no place in jehovah's organization.

then why celebrate anniversaries?

anniversary celebrations are about the joining of two selves, isn't that twice as selfish?.

leaving_quietly

""There are but two such celebrations mentioned in the Scriptures, one of the heathen king Pharaoh of Egypt, in the days of Joseph, and the other of [Herod,] whose birthday cost John the Baptist his life. In the Bible there is no instance of celebrations of birthdays by any of God’s people."—The Golden Age, May 6, 1936, page 499." God's Kingdom Rules! (2014) p.105

WBTS logic:

Birthdays = bad because the Bible shows them in a negative light

Bethel = good even though the Bible shows it in a negative light (1 Kings 13:32; 2 Kings 10:29; 2 Kings 23:19; Jer 48:13; Hosea 10:15; Amos 3:14; Amos 4:4; Amos 5:5,6)

25

Study article: "Go, and Make Disciples.." is a hot mess

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

so i hooked into meeting via phone this week to listen in and was shocked at the absurdities mentioned in the study article (2016 may watchtower: "go,..and make disciples of people of all the nations").

the answer is obvious—only jehovah’s witnesses.

the answer the missionary priest gave in no way proves that jws are the only ones "preaching the good news".

leaving_quietly

...After his resurrection, Jesus addressed hundreds of his disciples and told them: “Go, therefore, and make disciple

Really? What does the Bible REALLY teach?

Matt 28:16-19: However, the 11 disciples went to Galʹi·lee to the mountain where Jesus had arranged for them to meet.  When they saw him, they did obeisance, but some doubted. Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations...

16

Am i reading this right...? The preaching work is done??

by Nobodyspecial in

im sorry if this has been addressed, i have not seen any topics on this yet.. the wt for today seems to state, quiet plainly, that preaching work is done.

para 14,15 the question asks:.

"what proves that jehovahs witnesses have fulfilled jesus' prophecy with regard to the scope of the work?".

leaving_quietly

Not the first time they have said this. I haven't read today's article, but this was printed in w95 9/1 pp.17-18 par. 17. (emphasis mine)

Looking forward especially to our time, Jesus said: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10) Has this prophecy been fulfilled? Indeed, it has.

17

Revelation 5:9,10 and the 144,000

by Darkknight757 in

i hesitate to ask this question.

during some recent research on youtube i came across a few videos explaining how watchtower manipulated revelation 5:10. revelation 5:10 "you have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our god,and they will reign on the earth.”" -niv.

the nwt13 renders this verse: 10 and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our god,+ and they are to rule as kings+ over the earth.”.

leaving_quietly

I agree with Saename.

I would also point out that WTBTS only uses verse 9 and 10, but conveniently skips verse 8. Verse 8 is VERY important.

"When he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb, and each one had a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense. (The incense means the prayers of the holy ones.)"

WTBTS teaches that the 24 elders ARE the 144,000. However, verse 10 says, "and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God." The four living creatures and the 24 elders are not talking about themselves, but some other group.

Verse 9 also is important. "And they sing a new song, saying: You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,"

There's two points here:

1. "They sing a new song" - This seems like it would be the 144,000 because they too sing a new song. But, wait! There's a key difference. Rev 14:3 says: "And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth." So, here you have the four living creatures and the 24 elders in Rev 5:8 singing, but in Revelation 14, it's the 144,000 who are singing BEFORE the four living creatures and elders. AND it's only the 144,000 who could master that song. This means that the song sung in Revelation 5 is NOT the same song sung by the 144,000.

2. Where are the 144,000 taken from? From the 12 tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each. Where do the great crowd come from? From all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues.

Incidentally, the Kingdom Interlinear has a chart in the opening cover.

10

"New Heavens & New Earth" (Why The Need For New Heavens?)

by NoMoreHustle in

i have been thinking about this phrase lately "new heavens & new earth".

the new earth piece i guess i can see that one...... (still not really sure about that one) .

but why the need for "new heavens"?

leaving_quietly

We've resurrected an old thread, but it's relevant. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, too. There are several references to "new heavens and new earth" and the "re-creation" and "I am making all things new".

Isaiah 65:17 has the first reference to "new heavens and new earth." Here, God says: "Look! I am creating..." The Hebrew word for "creating" is the same work used in Genesis regarding when God created the earth. This seems to me to be a physical creation.

The idea I've been toying with is: what if this really was a NEW heavens, that is a completely new universe, or a new extension of ours? And what if this really was a NEW earth? Why would Revelation 21:1,2 have anything to do with the CURRENT earth if God was making a new one? A fascinating thought to me.

If you've seen the moving "Knowing" with Nicolas Cage, that's something that was explored a little. You realize it at the end of the movie. Not the best movie there is, but definitely an interesting twist on the end of days and this new earth concept.

20

My life has ended (be careful what you wish for part 2)

by nevaagain in

jw
friends

noone and nothing can really prepare you for the burning pain you feel when your spouse leaves you after 8 years of marriage.

from one day to another, all your dreams, hopes and plans are shattered.. i still have so many questions which will remain unanswered in eternity.. the thread i made a few weeks ago, is part of this story.

after learning about ttatt my plans involved to wake up my wife as well and exit the truth.

leaving_quietly

Wow. Sorry to hear this, nevaagain. Sounds like you really loved your wife. Believe it or not, you have an exit strategy right in front of you. Just quit going to meetings and field service. If anyone asks, you can easily, and probably truthfully, claim depression.

If you feel it would be helpful, seek professional therapy. Just having someone to talk to when you're floundering can be extremely useful.

17

Father's Day is tomorrow (in the US). Why is it wrong?

by leaving_quietly in

i did an examination of the one single article ever to address father's day since it's tomorrow here in the us.

the article covers both mother's day and father's day.

hope it's informative.. examination of “mother and father worship unscriptural”, the only article ever to address father’s day in any publication printed by the watchtower bible and tract society.

leaving_quietly

@Wayward, YES! Exactly what I was thinking. The whole thing makes no sense. If my wife wants to spend a whole day with one of her nieces and treat them special, take them out to lunch, buy them gifts, what is the difference between that and a birthday? A date on the calendar? What silly logic!

8

New Public Talk #193: "Rescue From World Distress"

by wifibandit in

pb_193_e "rescue from world distress".

leaving_quietly

How is this different than 60% of the other public talk outlines? Same words. Same logic. Like "Will You Be a Survivor of the Last Days?", or "Face the Future with Faith and Courage". My reaction: Meh.

133

Why Are You Here?

by Believer in

i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.

as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.

as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.

leaving_quietly

I come here for updates in JW land and the occasional posts regarding WTBTS history or doctrine. I consider myself a believer (not of JW doctrine, of course).

Everyone has their triggers as to why they leave JWs. For me, it was doctrinal dishonesty. Claiming to be "the truth" then changing that truth over and over and over. Certain JW doctrines are only provable by speculation and conjecture alone. Other doctrines can easily be disproved using the scriptures. For this "true religion", it's a farce. I've learned, however, that one can only see that if they are willing to let themselves.

This forum is a bit of a support group for me. It may not continue much longer, though. I'm getting ready to move on to better things in my life.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly