leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  29

  Planning an Escape: Truth Triumphs Over Lies!

  by 00DAD in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  often during wt/book studies and/or public talks i would be following along and note little discrepancies and inconsistencies.

  perhaps it was a scripture that didn't really support the point being asserted in the paragraph or maybe it was an illustration that sounded good but wasn't completely parallel or maybe it was a line of reasoning that wasn't as conclusive or solid as the speaker/elder/co/wt publication made it out to be.

  or maybe it was the excessive use of weasel words like, "evidently," "perhaps," "must have" and so on.

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  leaving_quietly

  Sounds like me right now, OODAD. Still in. Know the shunning will essentially destroy my life as I know it.

  I found out about the UN thing years ago. It was immediately debunked, probably by the very same link turtleturtle references. However, I can't help but think how we are constantly admonished not to take employment that would have anything to do with false religion. One recent picture showed a brother, a painter, who was reconsidering painting the outside of a church. Now, if we can't even do that, what gives the Society the right to have anything at all to do with the UN? Does this mean then that I can go into the library of the Vatican now? Or how about taking a tour of a military base? Or how about painting the walls of a church? It's all the same thing. In addition, it has stumbled others, right to the point of leaving the religion, and we all know what the Jesus said about one who stumbles another:

  Matt 18:6: "But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who put faith in me, it is more beneficial for him to have hung around his neck a millstone such as is turned by an ass and to be sunk in the wide, open sea."
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  40

  How can I convince my mother the JW's are wrong?

  by schnare in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this is probably going to be a long post, since i am going to be added some parts of our conversations on facebook.

  my mother has been involved sort of with the jw's, since she was younger.

  so she's always kind of believed in their stuff.

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  leaving_quietly

  Black Sheep: I misunderstood the point you were making. Thanks for clarifying.
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  40

  How can I convince my mother the JW's are wrong?

  by schnare in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this is probably going to be a long post, since i am going to be added some parts of our conversations on facebook.

  my mother has been involved sort of with the jw's, since she was younger.

  so she's always kind of believed in their stuff.

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  leaving_quietly

  Be cautious using Noah as an example. 2 Pet 2:5, partially quoted in the article, says he was a "preacher of righteousness". Scholars agree that this meant he did some sort of heralding, perhaps against he wickedness of the day and of God's judgement. See some commentaries here:

  http://bible.cc/2_peter/2-5.htm

  I'd personally steer clear of using Noah as an example.
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  35

  Etan Patz Confessed Killer Attends Kingdom Hall

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the etan patz story was huge when i was a kid in the 70's.

  very scary, parents didn't let kids out of their sight.

  investigators found the body several weeks ago, and now this guy comes forward.. http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20120525_neighbors_shocked_that_etan_patz_rsquo_s_confessed_killer_lived_among_them.html.

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  leaving_quietly

  Somebody (not sure who) has their facts wrong. Seems like this Philly paper is the only one mentioning the Jehovah's Witness church. Others say it was the Pentacostal Church.

  I searched for other stories mentioning JWs, but couldn't find anything else.

  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/wife-amp-daughter-etan-patz-suspect-seek-sanctuary-firestorm-family-church-article-1.1084585

  P.S. creating links isn't working on the ipad... sorry
• 
  11

  Some comments from a JW friend...

  by What Now? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="&#45;-" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif].

  these are a couple of comments ive heard recently from some jw friends that have gotten under my skin a little more than usual.... i was talking with a friend of mine and somehow the subject of armageddon came up and how once it starts what youve done youve done.

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  leaving_quietly

  She's quite possibly referring to 1 Tim. 4:1: "4 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons."

  Funny, though, just now reading this, I see it says "in later periods of time", not "in the last days". This one merits some research.
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  3

  June 2012 WT - Feet and toes

  by truthlover in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was cruising around last month and saw a review of this article - but cannot remember where it was shown that the picture of the feet/toes was crushed in earlier mags.. can anyone help?

  i searched under the mag but cant locate exactly where it was shown years ago.. .

  .

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  leaving_quietly

  There's probably something earlier than this, but it was the "Keep on the Watch" brochure, page 15, printed in 2004.
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  22

  F&DS does not exist?

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://jwnewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/criminal-prosecution-of-the-christian-congregation-of-jehovahs-witnesses/.

  it was mentioned in here that the attorney claimed that the f&ds does not exist and is only a theological arrangement.

  i apologize if this has been thoroughly discussed before, but i couldn't find anything concrete.

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  leaving_quietly

  Doug Mason - I did. I'm reading the entire document and digesting it. There's a lot to take in. Much of the referenced material was written when I was an infant or before I was born, so it's not anything I've seen before. Thank you for the document. I am, however, not as much interested in the legal aspect of the F&DS as I am the theological. AnnOMaly's point about the GB not claiming to know who the F&DS was (at least not all of them) is what has driven me to question all of this. Hearing it from this court case is just more fuel on the fire, but I don't want to jump to conclusions. I'm interested in what can be verified by public record, not simply the word of one person. If there's no public record to prove the statement, that doesn't mean it's false. It just means it cannot be verified, therefore, in my mind, cannot be relied upon.
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  22

  F&DS does not exist?

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://jwnewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/criminal-prosecution-of-the-christian-congregation-of-jehovahs-witnesses/.

  it was mentioned in here that the attorney claimed that the f&ds does not exist and is only a theological arrangement.

  i apologize if this has been thoroughly discussed before, but i couldn't find anything concrete.

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  leaving_quietly

  AnnOMaly - This was exactly my thought, and, frankly, the statement you referenced was when I started questioning things.

  Cedars - Thanks. It would be good to get the actual statements of record. If I showed this to my wife as it is right now, no way she'd believe it. If I have court documents, well, that's an entirely different story, depending on what they say. I suspect it's more of a legal angle as has been pointed out by others, but for the moment, it's all supposition.
• 
  22

  F&DS does not exist?

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://jwnewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/criminal-prosecution-of-the-christian-congregation-of-jehovahs-witnesses/.

  it was mentioned in here that the attorney claimed that the f&ds does not exist and is only a theological arrangement.

  i apologize if this has been thoroughly discussed before, but i couldn't find anything concrete.

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  leaving_quietly

  http://jwnewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/criminal-prosecution-of-the-christian-congregation-of-jehovahs-witnesses/

  It was mentioned in here that the attorney claimed that the F&DS does not exist and is only a theological arrangement. I apologize if this has been thoroughly discussed before, but I couldn't find anything concrete. Not to discredit Steven Unthank, but all we have is his word for this. I have not been able to find the actual court transcripts for the hearing where this was said. Has anyone else?

  Specifically:

  During the court hearing on October 11, legal counsel for the Watchtower Society, Rachel van Witsen, from Vincent Toole Solicitors (the Watchtower Society’s in-house law firm located inside Bethel, Australia) made a statement on behalf of the Watchtower Society that:-

  “The faithful and discreet slave is not a legal entity.”

  Vincent Toole Solicitors then went on to present arguments that the “faithful and discreet slave” do not exist as a “person” nor do they exist as an “unincorporated body” and nor do they exist as a “body” of Christians.

  Obviously, if it was claimed that the F&DS does not exist, that would be a major issue. However, what was the context? What were the arguments presented? For example, was is said that the F&DS does not exist as a legal entity only? Or that it just plain does not exist period? Was it said that the F&DS was simply a "theological arrangement" and that no persons really existed that makes up what JWs have come to believe as the F&DS?

  Personally, I have a hard time believing the WTS' attorney would claim, with approval from WTS, that the F&DS does not exist, period, and that they are just some made up thing, just some "theological arrangement." So, I'm looking for clarification, and hopefully, the transcripts of what was exactly said . . . not just Steven Unthank's version of it. Again, no offense intended. Just like I'm looking at the sources of WT articles for context, I can only, in all fairness, do the same here.
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  45

  If you were a Witness, when did you realize the Governing Body was apostate?

  by matt2414 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for more than 30 years i believed everything that came from the watchtower society, especially since i lived at bethel for a while and i knew a lot of the gb members, who to me seemed intelligent and personable.

  at the beginning, the emphasis was on the bible, the kingdom, jehovah and jesus.

  but gradually over time, there would appear an elephant in the room that no one seemed to talk about, such as the change in the understanding of "generation.

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  leaving_quietly

  MC RubberMallet said: "So I told them, "It is a FACT Witnesses are growing at a lot slower rate than the world population."

  Our C.O. recently said in the public talk: 'There's about 7.6 million Jehovah's Witnesses in the world. The world's population is 7 billion. It used to be that the ratio was 1 witness per thousand people, but the rates are improving now. Jehovah's Witnesses are growing at a faster rate than the world's population.'

  So, doing the math, the ratio is now just 1 witness per 921 people, so JWs must be right!

  This same C.O. said that many people claim that there are more people in this religion or that religion than JWs. He said that JWs have more ministers than any other religion. 7.6 million active ministers. The Catholics only have about 400,000. So, JWs have more.

  Jaw-dropping, to say the least. It was a completely "us vs. them" sort of week when he was here.