leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  49

  my disassociation letter

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  dear elders at%^** congregation, november 1, 2013. .

  as you know ive been a member of your congregation for many years.

  throughout the last several years i have had the opportunity to get to know many of you personally and i can truly say i have love for all of you.

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  leaving_quietly

  I want to add evidence to the Jesus is not Michael thing, for anyone who cares.

  I'm shocked that I overlooked some really important detail, which, for me, nails it entirely.

  In Daniel 10:13, we know it speaks of Michael as "one of the" foremost or first princes. Which, that in itself would lend credence to this issue. However, more importantly, we should pay attention to who it is that is speaking, the one who had the appearance of a man.

  Verses 5 and 6 describe this one who had the appearance of a man. Clothed in linen, hips girded with gold of Uphaz, body like chrysolite, face with the appearance of lightning, eyes like fiery torches, arms and feet like burnished (smooth, glossy, polished) copper, words like the sound of a crowd. Does this sound familiar? Revelation 1:12-15 has a similar description: clothed with a garment that reached to the feet, girded at the breasts with a golden girdle, eyes a fiery flame, feet like fine copper when glowing in a furnace, voice as the sound of many waters. This is none other than the Christ. Thus, in Daniel 10, this one talking to Daniel is the pre-human Jesus, and he is referring to Michael as someone else entirely.
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  1

  RIP Paul Walker

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. social
  2. current

  so sad.... http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/30/showbiz/actor-paul-walker-dies/index.html?hpt=hp_t1.

  .

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  leaving_quietly

  So sad...

  http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/30/showbiz/actor-paul-walker-dies/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
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  33

  Is disagreeing with the GB rebelling against God?

  by kneehighmiah in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the other day an elder mentioned that not following the gb direction is the same as rebelling against god.

  this in harmony with the ominous tone set forth in the respect jehovah's authority video.

  in this thread i'll point out several gaping holes in that argument as time allows.. 1. the gb/fds does not speak "mouth to mouth" with god as did moses.. jehovah condemned and punished mariam for speaking against moses.

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  leaving_quietly

  I thought wow this sounds like the Pharisees oral law.

  YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” - Matt 15:7-9
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  33

  Is disagreeing with the GB rebelling against God?

  by kneehighmiah in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the other day an elder mentioned that not following the gb direction is the same as rebelling against god.

  this in harmony with the ominous tone set forth in the respect jehovah's authority video.

  in this thread i'll point out several gaping holes in that argument as time allows.. 1. the gb/fds does not speak "mouth to mouth" with god as did moses.. jehovah condemned and punished mariam for speaking against moses.

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  leaving_quietly

  because obeying these instructions will save our lives.

  For whoever wants to save his soul will lose it; but whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it. - Matt 16:25
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  8

  Elders appointed by Holy Spirit, an error in logic

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower and the jws use the following reasoining to "prove" that elders are appointed by holy spirit.. 1) the bible was written under inspiration of the holy spirt.. 2) the bible requirements for and elder are followed when selecting and appointing elders.. 3) therefore, the elders are appointed by holy spirt.. thre is a logical flaw in this argument.. consider the following counter example.. suppose that a person obtains a book on medicine written by a doctor a, and that the person follows the instructions in the book concerning the writing a prescription.. 1) can the perscription that the person wrote be considered as having been written by doctor a?.

  2) can the perscription that the person wrote even be considered as having been written under the direction of doctor a?.

  the answer to both questions is "no.".

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  leaving_quietly

  At the week-long Elder's school, they addressed this. It goes something like this:

  Elders pray for holy spirit before their meeting before the C.O.'s visit about recommending brothers. The holy spirit can act in that meeting to move an elder to speak up or raise some objection, if necessary.

  C.O. comes and observes the one being recommended. Holy spirit can move the C.O. to raise an objection, if necessary.

  C.O. sends recommendation to branch. Service department researches brother. If on file, may respond negatively. If not on file, usually goes with C.O.'s recommendation. Holy spirit can move brother in service department one way or another.

  Recommendation approved, and sent back to congregation. Elders meet with brother being recommended and ask him if there's anything that would disqualify him from serving. And now, a specific question about having ever been involved or accused of child molestation. Holy spirit can move that brother to come clean.

  So, you see, the holy spirit can move anyone along this chain to raise an objection, including the brother himself.

  At least, that's how it's supposed to work.

  The reality is, if no one knows the brother well enough, and if the brother chooses not to come clean, then, you see, holy spirit is not in operation. A brother can be appointed without the approval of the holy spirit. We've all seen it.
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  10

  Witnessing after the Big A?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had the understanding that after "armageddon", the jws would be witnessing to resurrected people who had not rejected them during their earthly lifetime, in addition to all those who had lived before the wts existed, plus every dead child and baby.

  is that still taught by the wts?.

  1. presumably all dead earthly-hope jws are resurrected first.. 2. then all jws would have to be taught what is the true truth.

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  leaving_quietly

  Yes, this is what is still taught. Just for grins, I went through calculations using numbers WTS actually used.

  it-2 p. 792: "A very liberal estimate of the number of persons that have ever lived on earth is 20 billion (20,000,000,000)"

  it-2 p. 793: "Since a yearly increase of three percent, compounded, doubles the number about every 24 years, the entire 20 billion (20,000,000,000) could be resurrected before 300 years of Christ’s Thousand Year Reign had elapsed, giving ample time for training and judging the resurrected ones without disrupting harmony and order on earth."

  So, we have 20 billion and 300 years. That amounts to 182,648 per day resurrected. Given today's numbers as to approximately how long it takes for ONE person to come to baptism (approx 6600 hours, or 275 days), I calculate 1,205,476,800 hours, 5,0228,200 days, 137,611.5 years for all 20 billion to be taught.

  In this scenario, this teaching would no doubt be accelerated to just a few hours per person (using Biblical examples, such as the household of Cornelius, the jailer, the Ethiopian Eunuch, etc.). To do it within that 300 year period of time, each person will have 14.388365 hours of instruction, if my math is correct.

  This is, of course, round the clock, 24 hours per day instruction, not taking time out to handle the necessary business of eating, sleeping and the like. Aside from teaching these new ones, one of the first things they'll do is clothe, feed and shelter them. There's a lot of logistical things that will be required in this scenario that I don't think JWs are prepared for, at least, not in the short term.
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  13

  "Special week of activity"

  by stillin in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the co visit.

  i should keep count of how many times somebody uses that phrase.

  in the announcements, in the prayers, in their parts, ad nauseous.. and really...c'mon, now.

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  leaving_quietly

  Yeah what is it with that 30-second rule? The school conductor in our hall times the comments, and the D.O. at the circuit assembly does the same thing? I'm so sick of hearing, "our average time per comment was 32 seconds! Good, but can be better." Ugh.

  <sorry . . . off topic>
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  17

  Circuit Assembly Questions

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have to go to the ca this weekend for family reasons... the only bright side is that i may spot some hypocrisy to share with others.

  if my suffering helps just one person then it's worth the effort.

  i know why the caged bird sings... .

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  leaving_quietly

  DD, I went recently...

  It's all the same ol', same ol'. Watch out for violent entertainment (even paintball is bad, apparently), materialism (even if you can afford nice things, you shouldn't buy them), dress / grooming (brothers, don't wear tight pants that show off your junk), and pride (don't let your ego prevent you from receiving your dose of counsel every now and then). Don't get a higher education. Pioneer more.

  Oddly, nothing about anything of depth or substance. It was a whole lot of DON'Ts. Remember, the theme is "God's Word is Beneficial", taken from 2 Tim 3:16,17. So, expect parts on "for teaching" (they conveniently left out James 3:1), "for reproving" (Meaning to prove again "re - prove", "for setting things straight" (I think this is where they talked about how bad tobacco is, but I can't recall exactly), "for disciplining". Mostly negative stuff.

  Here's a thought: "God's Word" is the Bible, according to WTS, right? Paul didn't have "the Bible" when he wrote those words to Timothy. What was God's word to him? (John 1:1; Rev 19:13)
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  36

  Quotes to discourage JWs from researching WT history?

  by JWOP in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  are there any direct quotes from the watchtower's literature that discourages investigation into their past doctrines and practices?.

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  leaving_quietly

  I believe the talks were originally titled "Millions now living MAY never die". Rutheford felt more and more confidant that armageddon would come in 1925 that he changed the talks to "Millions now living WILL never die".

  This is close, but not quite accurate. These were the same talks, but given in different locations on different dates. I researched this myself some time ago, and frankly, there's no point of contention here. WTS is not revising its history in this respect. It is certainly choosing which title to refer to, which is within their right, whether we like it or not.

  w55 4/15 p. 238: "March 24, 1918, at the Brooklyn Academy of Music by the Society’s president, entitled “The World Has Ended—Millions Now Living May Never Die!” Three thousand heard this important lecture.*"

  The footnote there says: "W 1918, p. 110. In substance this was the same lecture as given in Los Angeles February 24, 1918."

  w55 12/1 p. 709: "As to preaching, their efforts were limited to the proclaiming of the high calling to the “little flock,” except that in February, 1918, the message began to be proclaimed that “Millions Now Living Will Never Die.”"

  Note the dates and places:

  February 24, 1918, Los Angeles: "WILL Never Die"

  March 24, 1918, Brooklyn: "MAY Never Die"

  It should be noted that the attitude was one of "WILL Never Die" as there was a booklet a few years later with the title "Millions Now Living Will Never Die!"
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  26

  Is it ok for a jw to join a toastmasters club?

  by hoser in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  leaving_quietly

  The reason why I would consider joining is that I could put it on a resume and it would be recognized. The tms not so much

  The exact reason I wanted to join. At the time, the weekly meeting was in the building where I worked, so it would have been convenient. The whole Pastor thing, though, kept me from doing it. I was an uber-JW at one time.