leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  13

  Was this elder full of bs again regarding the complete wt library online?

  by Wakanda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is my first time making an o.p.

  an elder told me that he had access to a website online that had all the old bound volumes and books.

  also, he made sure to say it was not an apostate website, but a 'legit' website made by brothers.

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  leaving_quietly

  I use mostly youblisher.com for older WTs and the Internet Archive. This avoids the whole 'apostate site' issue.
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  12

  Governing Body Discontinues the New World Translation as 'OLD Light'???

  by Ruby 1976 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just saw this posted on a facebook group.

  anyone know if there is any truth to this?.

  http://www.exjehovahswitness.com/gb-discontinues-new-world-translation-as-old-light.html.

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  leaving_quietly

  You did see the home page of that site, right?

  Your Source for overly exaggerated JW Satire news
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  17

  Preaching work already done - not for now

  by stockholm_Syndrome in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  compare what happened during the apostolic period -col 1:23:provided, of course, that you continue in the faith, established on the foundation and steadfast, not being shifted away from the hope of that good news that you heard and that was preached in all creation under heaven.+ of this good news i, paul, became a minister.rom 16:26but has now been made manifest* and has been made known through the prophetic scriptures among all the nations according to the command of the everlasting god to promote obedience by faith;who was the preaching commission, or coming forward as a witness given to?

  remembering context, audience and purpose….john 15:27;and you, in turn, are to bear witness,+ because you have been with me from the beginning.hmmm i personally wasn't with jesus from the beginning ---were you ?matt 11:1when jesus had finished giving instructions to his 12 disciples, he set out from there to teach and preach in their cities.i wasn't one of his original 12 disciples ---where you?matthew 28:16-20however, the 11 disciples went to galʹi·lee to the mountain where jesus had arranged for them to meet.

  17 when they saw him, they did obeisance, but some doubted.18 jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “all authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

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  leaving_quietly

  Regardless of whether the preaching work is already done or not, the big question is: is every Christian required to do it, as JWs teach?

  My simple answer: if every Christian was REQUIRED to do it, why was Philip designated as Philip the Evangelizer. Weren't they all evangelizers?
  
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  4

  My head just exploded!!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://youtu.be/9xxco63rizg .

  watch the video , he says that the cults teaching are not based on the bible and then provides the quote.

  .

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  leaving_quietly

  The video is a bit misleading, but the second quite, which are from the first two sentences in the answer to the question, SEEMS to say that JW beliefs are founded on the Watchtower. If that quote is used separately from the rest of the answer, that's the idea someone would get. I'm pretty sure that's not what they were going for in the answer, though.

  Of course, that said, we all know that if the Watchtower says one thing and the Bible says another, JWs will favor the Watchtower over the Bible. My wife made it very clear to me a few years back that she will always side with what the Watchtower says, regardless of what the Bible says.
  

  Here's the full article:

  ● Is it true that the teachings of Jehovah’s witnesses are based on the New World Translation of the Bible?

  Up until 1950 the teachings of Jehovah’s witnesses were based mainly upon the King James Version of the Bible, but in the course of years the publications of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in English alone have quoted from more than seventy different Bible translations produced in Christendom. This does not take into account the fact that our literature is published in more than 125 languages and that these foreign languages do not have the English New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. In all parts of the world Jehovah’s witnesses are proving their Bible-based beliefs to the people by the copy of the Bible that the householder may have or that he may recognize as authoritative. So the New World Translation comes along merely as a confirmation of the correctness of the teachings of Jehovah’s witnesses and does not constitute the foundation of their teachings.

  The fact that the New World Translation bears out teachings of Jehovah’s witnesses does not prove that the teachings of Jehovah’s witnesses are founded upon this Bible translation. Since 1879 The Watchtower has been published, setting forth the things that Jehovah’s witnesses believe and teach. The New World Translation, which the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has accepted as a gift from the New World Bible Translation Committee, first began to be published in part in 1950, and volumes of it have been coming out from time to time since then. Consequently, the formulation of the Bible doctrine of Jehovah’s witnesses did not wait upon the New World Translation, beginning in 1950.
  
  
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  38

  Blood Ban Not Going Away Anytime Soon

  by baldeagle in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  at the recent circuit assembly in our area (nov 19/2016) a talk was given in the afternoon entitled “jehovah will resurrect the dead” it’s clear that the prohibition on blood is not going away anytime soon.

  many of us here have expressed the hope that this death dealing policy would be softened or become a complete conscience matter.

  not the case, jw’s are urged to not give in and to focus on the resurrection hope.

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  leaving_quietly

  Off topic, but as I recall, Jesus said HE would be doing the resurrecting. Not Jehovah. The title of the talk proves, once again, that WTBTS does an end-run around Jesus. (John 6:39,40,44,54; John 11:25)
  
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  20

  GB member Geoffrey Jackson going apostate

  by darkspilver in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yes, it's true, geoffrey jackson, the cleverest member of the governing body, is going apostate.. he's already written two scholarly books, the question is .... when is his third book going to be released!!.....

  desirousofchange: "faded" is definitely only an "apostate" term.

  i don't know of it being used by wt publications or "in the dark" jwsberrygerry: geoff jackson used it during the arc..

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  leaving_quietly

  Oh good grief... this is what we're picking at nowadays? First, these two books are old. 1999 and 2001. Second, both were published prior to Jackson being appointed to the GB. He was appointed in 2005.
  
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  3

  [Full] An ex-JW's interpretation on "All Along the Watchtower" by Bob Dylan

  by intropist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  made by bob dylan and far-famed with the fantastic guitar playing of jimmy hendrix, "all along the watchtower" has been leaving great signatures in the pop history.

  i want to have a chance to drop my own interpretation.

  reading the below, you may need to take into consideration the fact that i'm not a native speaker in english.. [all along the watchtower] written by bob dyan - full lyrics.

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  leaving_quietly

  This may interest you.

  http://www.keesdegraaf.com/index.php/179/bob-dylans-all-along-the-watchtower-a-lyric-analysis-part-1

  Of course, my favorite rendition is Bear McCreary's for Battlestar Galactica.
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  19

  Jesus in the old testament

  by Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  about two years ago i was challenged by a householder to do the research on the subject.

  of course thinking it was all bunk i decided to take a look off the reservation.

  much to my surprise a lot of started to make sense and i started to understand the connections between the old and new testament .

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  leaving_quietly

  There was this nagging memory of some thought some time ago that Jesus was the "pillar of fire" or something like that. Took me a bit, but I finally found the one reference I was looking for.

  21 Jehovah also uses angelic representatives to teach, including his Firstborn, “the Word.” (John 1:1-3) Although Jehovah could have spoken directly to his perfect human son, Adam, in the garden of Eden, likely he used the prehuman Jesus to speak for Him. (Genesis 2:16, 17) This one was probably “the angel of the true God who was going ahead of the camp of Israel” and regarding whom Jehovah commanded: “Obey his voice.” (Exodus 14:19; 23:20, 21) No doubt the prehuman Jesus was also the “prince of the army of Jehovah” who appeared to Joshua to strengthen him. (Joshua 5:14, 15) Jehovah also uses other angels to impart his teachings, such as those he used to deliver his Law to Moses.—Exodus 20:1; Galatians 3:19; Hebrews 2:2, 3.

  w95 8/1 p. 13 par. 21
  

  Then I searched for "prehuman Jesus" and found this:

  As the history of Israel unfurled, the Word observed Satan’s attempts to turn humans away from pure worship. Following the Exodus from Egypt, God told Israel through Moses: “Here I am sending an angel ahead of you to keep you on the road and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Watch yourself because of him and obey his voice. Do not behave rebelliously against him, for he will not pardon your transgression; because my name is within him.” (Exodus 23:20, 21) Who was this angel? Likely, the prehuman Jesus.

  w98 6/15 p. 23
  

  And:

  •23:20-23—Who was the angel mentioned here, and how was it that Jehovah’s name was “within him”?
  Angels other than the prehuman Jesus Christ were used to transmit God’s law to Moses. (John 1:1-3, 14; Hebrews 2:2, 3) But it is reasonable to conclude that the angel of whom Jehovah said “my name is within him” was Jesus in his prehuman form. He was used to guide the Israelites on their way to the Promised Land. (1 Corinthians 10:1-4) Jesus, whose name means “Salvation of Jehovah,” is the principal one that upholds and vindicates his Father’s name.
  

  w83 10/15 p. 31

  And:

  What “things” did Isaiah say “because he saw his glory”? Well, John quotes Isaiah here twice, first quoting Isaiah 53:1 concerning the “arm of Jehovah” and then quoting Isaiah 6:10 concerning the temple vision. At Isaiah 53:1 the “arm of Jehovah” is Christ Jesus. At Isaiah 6:10 the speaker at the temple is Jehovah, but he includes his Son with him when he says: “Who will go for us?” that is, for me and my Son. Thus we see that the prehuman Jesus was associated with Jehovah in his glory at the temple, and hence John could rightly say Isaiah here saw his glory and spoke about him, “the arm of Jehovah.” Certainly Jesus the Greater Isaiah had not sent himself, but Jehovah at the temple did so, for John here applies Isaiah 6:10 to Jesus as the Sent One toward whom this prophecy was first fulfilled, after Jesus had ridden into Jerusalem and offered himself as King and had cleansed the temple. At that time Jesus was not in “his glory”, but the Jewish leaders had vilified him and had conspired to kill him.
  w51 4/1 p. 216
  

  There's probably more, but it's not something that was discussed all that much that I can recall.
  
  
  
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  129

  Hi forum

  by A Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i proably shouldnt be on here but i feel like saying this.

  i have been for the last couple weeks been studying religion.

  i've learned the only ones who today do what the bible says to is jw.

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  leaving_quietly

  All I can say about 1914 is that JWs have twisted quite a few things around scripturally to get to that date.

  Daniel chapter 4, according to JWs, has TWO fulfillments (nevermind that verse 28 says that Nebuchadnezzar was the fulfillment.) BTW, Daniel didn't write chapter 4. Nebuchadnezzar did. See Dan 4:1.
  

  This somehow miraculously ties to Luke 21:24 about Jerusalem being trampled on by the nations based on one word, "times". Nevermind that both the context and the Greek tense in the verse is FUTURE, not PAST, which it would have to be if the trampling started when Jerusalem was destroyed, which would have been ~600 years prior to when Christ said those words.

  This somehow ties to Rev 11:3 which indicates 1260 days is 42 months, and 42 months is 3.5 years, which is half of 7 (remember Daniel 4?...That has a bit about "seven times"). So, these 7 times, using a rule of a day for a year found at Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6 and applying it hear, says these 7 times are actually 7 years, and 7 years is 2520 days (1260 x 2), and this really means 2520 days. So, counting from the erroneous year of Jerusalem's destruction of 607 B.C.E. forward 2520 years brings one to 1914 A.D. Nevermind that the Bible uses lunar years of 360 days each... JWs will just use solar years of 365 days each.

  Get my point? Ignore the facts (or make them up) and things get weird.

  Edited for snarkiness. ;)
  
• 
  129

  Hi forum

  by A Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i proably shouldnt be on here but i feel like saying this.

  i have been for the last couple weeks been studying religion.

  i've learned the only ones who today do what the bible says to is jw.

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  leaving_quietly

  This is Paul saying some where turning away from the Good news taught by christ. If early Christianity was unitarian doesn't this this align with others turning away from it?

  Yes Jesus being resurrected was good news. But in the sense of this scripture the good news is religion.

  In the sense of this scripture? I'm sorry, what? Where do you get religion from it? Note more carefully what it says, particularly that ones were "wanting to distort the good news about Christ". This isn't about religion. Religion isn't even mentioned. This is all about the good new of Christ, specifically that he died for our sins and was resurrected, becoming a guarantee of our salvation. That's a far different message than 'God is going to destroy wickedness.' While that may be true, that isn't the good news that should be preached. Paul emphasize that this was his main message at 1 Tim 2:5-7:

  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.
  
  
  

  13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[a]

  What else could this mean besides no one else beside Jesus has went to heaven? So where do we go?

  That no one had ever gone into heaven, just as the verse says. But after Christ died, he paved the way for that to happen.
  

  John 14:2-4: In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. 4 And where I am going, you know the way.”
  

  Also, Phil 3:14, 15: I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus. 15 Therefore, let those of us who are mature be of this mental attitude, and if you are mentally inclined otherwise in any respect, God will reveal the above attitude to you.
  

  Some would be "mentally inclined" otherwise. Paul was telling his audience that being mentally inclined otherwise wasn't the correct inclination.

  Thier will be a paradise on earth.
  

  Before you say that, please find ONE VERSE that says this. There are only four mentions of "paradise" in the Bible. None of them refer to earth.

  That said, I believe that eventually, at some point after the events of Revelation 20 occur, there will be a residing on earth, and perhaps eventually it will be a paradise. Why do I believe this?
  

  Rev 21:2: I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
  

  I want to emphasize, though, that the destination hope for Christians was NEVER EVER EVER said to be a paradise earth. Not by Christ and not by the apostles. JWs believe in a two-hope system. I've known this all my life, but it was outrightly stated in The Watchtower, December 15, 2013 issue on page 25, paragraph 13. Discussing the Memorial celebration, it said: "The speaker will explain the two distinct hopes set out in the Bible for Christians."

  Does the Bible set out two distinct hopes? Ephesians 4:4-6 says no.

  One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
  
  

  Anyway, it appears you are zoomed in on the "JWs are the only ones who preach" mantra, which is not what makes the mark of a Christian. There are many who preach, not just JWs. If there weren't, then why would Christ warn us about those who come and try to deceive us? The issue is not WHO is preaching, but WHAT is being preached.

  All I can say is this: before making the claim that JWs are right because of outward appearances, do your homework. Jesus condemned the Pharisees, the supposed "right religion" of the day:
  

  Matt 23:27,28: Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
  

  Is there any hypocrisy on the part of JWs? How about lawlessness? I can't answer these questions for you. Well, I can, but that would be just my opinion. This is something you need to investigate for yourself.
  

  John 5:39,40: “You are searching the Scriptures because you think that you will have everlasting life by means of them; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. 40 And yet you do not want to come to me so that you may have life.

  
  

  In my years as a JW, rare was it to be admonished to come to Christ. In fact, coming to Christ as a JW means to follow in his footsteps, which equates to preaching. What does it mean to come to Christ?
  

  John 14:6: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
  

  Matt 11:27: All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son except the Father; neither does anyone fully know the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.

  We cannot get to the Father except through Christ. Not through any religion. No through any other human. We must go through Christ.
  
  
  

  In Revelation, he said to the congregation in Ephesus:

  Rev 2:1,2:  ‘I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot tolerate bad men, and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars.
  

  The word "apostle" means "sent forth one". Any who claims they are sent forth by God to do something should rightly be put to the test. That means even the teachings of JWs.

  Best wishes to you. May the journey be enlightening.

  Edited for typos.