question of the day (every day!
) for jehovah's witnesses: "if it's the truth, then, why does it keep changing?".
second question is, for the truth that hasn't changed, what is the shelf life?.
The Kickoff post is absolutely great. Right into the end zone.
Reminds me of back in the 70s sitting around with friends looking at food packaging labels.
Versus the assurances of natural ingredients where none could be expected or found,
one of the guys picked up a package and add libbed:
"Our product has never seen the light of day."
30 minutes ago i just got off the phone with some important players in this case, and some things were relayed to me concerning a lot of details of the outcome of the last two days of court.
i am passing this on.
cynthia hampton, one of the main players in the candace conti case (and a close friend of 28 years), just informed me of a further, far more powerful move by the state of california against the watch tower bible and tract society of new york, inc.. by order of the superior court of the state of california - county of alameda (see documents below), until the watch tower's appeal, which won't begin until august 13th and will take up to two years to settle due to due process of law, has forbidden the watch tower to sell any more of its $1 billion in assets in the borough of brooklyn until the appeals case is finished, to assure they won't shelter their monies in the light of this most huge and devastating sexual abuse scandal ever to hit the watch tower society, and perhaps any other single-victim lawsuit.
Message on way.
30 minutes ago i just got off the phone with some important players in this case, and some things were relayed to me concerning a lot of details of the outcome of the last two days of court.
i am passing this on.
cynthia hampton, one of the main players in the candace conti case (and a close friend of 28 years), just informed me of a further, far more powerful move by the state of california against the watch tower bible and tract society of new york, inc.. by order of the superior court of the state of california - county of alameda (see documents below), until the watch tower's appeal, which won't begin until august 13th and will take up to two years to settle due to due process of law, has forbidden the watch tower to sell any more of its $1 billion in assets in the borough of brooklyn until the appeals case is finished, to assure they won't shelter their monies in the light of this most huge and devastating sexual abuse scandal ever to hit the watch tower society, and perhaps any other single-victim lawsuit.
Band on the Run,
Got your message and printed the instructions. Crossing my fingers that I will have something of interest for you shortly.
Thank you.
Kepler
30 minutes ago i just got off the phone with some important players in this case, and some things were relayed to me concerning a lot of details of the outcome of the last two days of court.
i am passing this on.
cynthia hampton, one of the main players in the candace conti case (and a close friend of 28 years), just informed me of a further, far more powerful move by the state of california against the watch tower bible and tract society of new york, inc.. by order of the superior court of the state of california - county of alameda (see documents below), until the watch tower's appeal, which won't begin until august 13th and will take up to two years to settle due to due process of law, has forbidden the watch tower to sell any more of its $1 billion in assets in the borough of brooklyn until the appeals case is finished, to assure they won't shelter their monies in the light of this most huge and devastating sexual abuse scandal ever to hit the watch tower society, and perhaps any other single-victim lawsuit.
Double submission. That's what happens when you stop to order a sandwich.
30 minutes ago i just got off the phone with some important players in this case, and some things were relayed to me concerning a lot of details of the outcome of the last two days of court.
i am passing this on.
cynthia hampton, one of the main players in the candace conti case (and a close friend of 28 years), just informed me of a further, far more powerful move by the state of california against the watch tower bible and tract society of new york, inc.. by order of the superior court of the state of california - county of alameda (see documents below), until the watch tower's appeal, which won't begin until august 13th and will take up to two years to settle due to due process of law, has forbidden the watch tower to sell any more of its $1 billion in assets in the borough of brooklyn until the appeals case is finished, to assure they won't shelter their monies in the light of this most huge and devastating sexual abuse scandal ever to hit the watch tower society, and perhaps any other single-victim lawsuit.
Band on the Run,
I would like to send you a PM about something I dug up researching the WTBTS role as an NGO. It's not a legal question per se, but probably would warrant a lawyer's perspective, similar to what you have provided already - which I am much appreciative of, by the way. Otherwise, I wouldn't be bringing this matter up.
Unfortunately, for the life of me, I see no controls on my logged-on account. Nothing seems to initiate a PM vs. a post when I go to the letter mode. Maybe I can get something out on a test letter as a reply? Or - if anyone has any suggestions. Obviously people get past this point.
Kepler
30 minutes ago i just got off the phone with some important players in this case, and some things were relayed to me concerning a lot of details of the outcome of the last two days of court.
i am passing this on.
cynthia hampton, one of the main players in the candace conti case (and a close friend of 28 years), just informed me of a further, far more powerful move by the state of california against the watch tower bible and tract society of new york, inc.. by order of the superior court of the state of california - county of alameda (see documents below), until the watch tower's appeal, which won't begin until august 13th and will take up to two years to settle due to due process of law, has forbidden the watch tower to sell any more of its $1 billion in assets in the borough of brooklyn until the appeals case is finished, to assure they won't shelter their monies in the light of this most huge and devastating sexual abuse scandal ever to hit the watch tower society, and perhaps any other single-victim lawsuit.
Band on the Run,
I would like to send you a PM about something I dug up researching the WTBTS role as an NGO. It's not a legal question per se, but probably would warrant a lawyer's perspective, similar to what you have provided already - which I am much appreciative of, by the way. Otherwise, I wouldn't be bringing this matter up.
Unfortunately, for the life of me, I see no controls on my logged-on account. Nothing seems to initiate a PM vs. a post when I go to the letter mode. Maybe I can get something out on a test letter as a reply? Or - if anyone has any suggestions. Obviously people get past this point.
Kepler
my concordance searches indicate eve is mentioned twice in the ot and twice in the new.
i guess elsewhere in genesis she must be the wife or the woman.
interesting: since she was the only woman in the world and adam was the only man, i wonder how husband and wife as terminology were invented?
The "fix" worked.
Save for introducing the general topic in the first place, I can't add much of substance to the twelve tribe - twelve zodiac sign debate. I cannot say whether the number of tribes and signs in the zodiac is coincidental or not and not sure how far the present day zodiac signs go back into antiquity. In current day astrology there is a dis-connect between dates and signs of about one sign, so whenever one uses the convention for locating stars in the sky based on calendar "signs", it's good to use windage in aiming.
Looking at calendar systems several years ago, it looked to me like the Hebrew calendar was derivative of the Babylonian. The months sounded similar, it started in the spring and used the same sort of extra month corrections to compensate effects of 365 day years with 30 day increments.I believe this was lunar vs. the Egyptian solar calendar. Yet the oldest calendrical records found in Jerusalem appear to be based on an autumn start... The Exodus account seems to be based on the Babylonian-like calendar while the events are supposed to be occurring in a society with a solar calendar.
I don't remember any accounts of the ancient Hebrews investing nearly as much energy in observing the sky as their Mesopotamian neighbors - or leaving considerable astronomical records. Hence, that's why I would be inclined to say theirs Babylonian derived rather than vice versa. As to Babylonian astrology, I that was a rather late development, but also a consequence of collecting a lot of data and trying to correlate it with something. Back in the sixties, I remember how cancer researchers correlated cancer with cranberries. And they weren't Babylonians.
It is odd as well that Daniel purports to be about an Israelite who learns to be a soothsayer in the court of Nebuchadnezzar, but yet neither the first or third person account tells us anything about Babylonian astronomy. Only that Daniel was the best dream interpreter of any of them. That seems to be a sacred calling now very much in neglect. I don't think the current authorities have any dreams, much less anyone to call on to have them interpreted. But I also had a hard time, in given episode or chapter, getting a grasp on which ruler of Babylon Daniel was supposed to be talking to or working for...
my concordance searches indicate eve is mentioned twice in the ot and twice in the new.
i guess elsewhere in genesis she must be the wife or the woman.
interesting: since she was the only woman in the world and adam was the only man, i wonder how husband and wife as terminology were invented?
Test. I can't see some of the posts.
note: i found the following experience where someone (rob) applied captives of a concepts chapter 21 when trying to help his father-in-law see some of the interesting he learned from the proclaimers book.. __________________________________________.
this past wednesday night, the 6th.
i met with my father-in-law.
RE:
-------------------------------
Hello, Kepler...
Here is a comment from my book about how the Governing Body has changed the meaning of “the end of the Gentile Times” from referring to the literal end of their rule in 1914 to their rule being invisibly interrupted in 1914 by an invisible Jesus Christ who was invisibly present as he was being invisibly enthroned to begin his invisible rule from the invisible heavens.”
How do Jehovah’s Witnesses know that all these invisible events occurred in 1914? They have no problem accepting this explanation because it comes from what they believe to be God’s visible organization. “
As long as Witnesses believe the Society is God’s organization they don’t need any proof of the above invisible events.
Don
-------------
Don,
So long as we are not spoiling this for potential readers - and you decide- When did everyone at Kingdom Hall come to realize this?
I mean, with General Relativity, say, in 1919 Eddington does an observation of a star's light bent in proximity to or prior to occultation by the sun. The change in angle is double what Newtonian physics predicted, but about right for General Relativity, given observational difficulties. The announcement is read in scientific conferences where, in one instance, Einstein happens to be lecturing - and there was supposedly applause.
Now analogously, how was this supposed to have occurred with Christ's return and selection of the pre-Jehovah's Witnesses organization to displace all earthly authority? The war had been going on since late June when Russell said in October that, yes, this is the one and then added it that the war was final and God's irrevocable decision for which prayer of reversal should not be considered. Shouldn't there have been a "telegram" about the "Archduke" if this was an invisible event observed?
And in 1919? Why the administrative delay? The 144,000 weren't in their celestial offices for the review? And how long did it take to get the word out? Wouldn't it have helped if that were well understood earlier? Why keep it a secret? Am I even getting the gist of this story right?
And still, if it happened in 1919 rather than one of the earlier years, what invisible observation was observed? Or is this another tea-leaves reading of scripture that hadn't occurred earlier? Could it not have occurred until after Rutherford had corporate control?
To tell the truth, most of the argument I had seen for a 1914 end or return ( your choice) was based on Russell's books and then a lot of that was based on his supposed measurements of pyramid passages, revised as required by calendar passage. This argument was subsequently denounced by Rutherford in the late 20s as not only in error but Satanic.
And then when anyone does the math on 1914 and Jerusalem's destruction, plus the the re-calculation of lunar eclipses during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar with a PC-based software, or resorts to Babylonian records cut in stone...
K
note: i found the following experience where someone (rob) applied captives of a concepts chapter 21 when trying to help his father-in-law see some of the interesting he learned from the proclaimers book.. __________________________________________.
this past wednesday night, the 6th.
i met with my father-in-law.
...He was not aware that the writings that "Proclaimers" book stated (without stating) that the first 2 Presidents didn't know when Christ arrived.
“Had never made the correlation that The GB didn't know until 1943 that Christ had returned. He was visibly upset with this but a few minutes later composed himself.
“He went through automatic dispelling of the facts. I held firm to what the book was stating.
“I then asked that the Jehovah's Witnesses do without fail follow the bible scriptures. "There is no doubt they do" was his reply.
“Well, I told him I was surprised to learn that they were the only religion not watching for Christ's return and didn't open to him in 1914. In direct conflict with (Luke 12:36-37), which we immediately read in the Bible.
----------------------------------
Don Cameron,
Greetings. Read with interest your account of the family discussion about the "events" of 1914 to 1919. Elsewhere on this forum I had touched on the Faithful Slave doctrine and certainly the significance of 1914 and the subsequent selection of God's theocratic voice on Earth circa 1919. In fact, in one recent topic, I had asked specifically how it was possible to witness an invisible event: How do you know when it occurred? How to corroborate accounts ( e.g. two witnesses attesting to the same thing)? Understand that I am not a JW, but have been drawn into these discussions by circumstances ( my ex fiance decided to return to the faith and I took instructions for several months at home). So many ideas have not really sunk in from years of exposure or avidly reading piles of publications.
But in some respects, in proposing the topic of witnessing an invisible event, it struck me a little like a comedy sketch even as I wrote it. I could have laughed more if things had not turned out so terribly on a personal scale and on the much larger one of a century old world-wide multi-million victim network. But you have added even more spin to this curve ball. These events have become even more invisible if the principal witnesses had no knowledge of their own testimony or never even made such claims.
I hope you will reiterate some of what you have written here on the forum. And describe the argument in more detail.
Looking forward to reading your book.
Best regards,
K
