Posts by Bobcat

27

Could i possily be one of the sealed?

by msconcerned in

i went to the meeting last night, (with the start of a beard) and going throught he book study i had a thought.

god our "heavenly father" wants us to have a personal relationship with him because he is love.

well my brain disconnected from this thinking because if the bible was "written primarily for the anointed" and the benefits in the bible can only be mine because of "association" with the anointed, then i can never have a personal relationship with god or jesus.

Bobcat

(Isaiah 45:22) . . .Turn to me and be saved, all YOU [at the] ends of the earth . . .

(Acts 17:30) . . .yet now [God] is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent. [This was said in the first century AD when, supposedly, according to the WT, God was only collecting the 144,000]

(1 Timothy 2:3, 4) . . .This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

(2 Timothy 3:16, 17) . . .All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. . .

(2 Peter 3:9) . . .Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.

(Revelation 22:17) . . .let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.

40

Don't Miss the Meetings - Hebrews 10:24, 25 Re-examined

by Oubliette in

i recently got an unsolicited lecture from a well-intentioned but nevertheless misguided jw friend.

the gist of it was that i needed to go to all the meetings or i would miss out on "everlasting life.".

i responded that i do not need to go to meetings to have a relationship with god.

Bobcat

Phizzy:

Eden One said " The 1st century christians did meet ONCE a week... on sunday evenings."

Proof ?

Here is the article on "Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10) from the ISBE (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia). This isn't the recent revised version of the ISBE, but the article carries the gist of whats in the newer one. Whether it would stand as proof to most JWs is questionable. The WT takes "Lord's Day" in Revelation 1:10 to be a reference to "the Day of the Lord." (The whole framework of their understanding of Revelation rests on the quirky NWT rendering of this verse. See here for some discussion of this verse. Additional here.

Take Care

9

SODOM AND GOMORRAH Matthew 11:24 Great Conversation Starter

by objectivetruth in

matthew 11:24 is a great scripture to use, when speaking with friends & family, that are still "blinded".

"24?consequently i say to you people, it will be more endurable for the land of sodom on judgment day than for you.".

the current understanding is that jesus was using hyperbole.

Bobcat

The start of the problem is the NWT's rendition of hemera kriseos in Matthew 10:15; 11:22, 24; 12:36. For some explanation, see here. By "Judgment Day," more properly "day of judgment," Jesus is referring to the coming destruction of the nation at the hand of the Romans. The reference to Sodom & Gomorrah is an allusion to Lamentations 4:6 although the phrasing in Matthew sounds a bit awkward.

By translating the phrase in Matthew as "Judgment Day," and developing a doctrine that differentiates it from "day of judgment" (although they are the exact same phrase in Greek), the Society created this problem of whether the people of Sodom would be resurrected or not. And thus, they waffled back and forth over the years about this, when in fact, it was their manufactured understanding about "Judgment Day" that created the problem, or at the least, kept it going over the years.

Now, as the link above mentions, they never use these verses in Matthew when they talk about "Judgment Day," even though these verses in Matthew are the only ones in the NWT which have the term "Judgment Day."

Concerning Matthew 11:23, Barnes Notes on the NT says, " This has been strictly fulfilled. In the wars between the Jews and the Romans, Chorazin, Bethsaida, Capernaum, etc., were so completely desolated that it is difficult to determine their former situation. " I imagine Josephus has some on this but I don't have time at the moment to look it up.

74

Billy's Comments You Won't Hear at the 01-19-2014 WT Study (7 Shepherds, 8 Dukes)

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

16-20. we shall also have to raise up against him seven shepherds, yes, eight dukes of mankind.mic.

what is the most important thing that you can do now to prepare for any future attack on gods people?.

all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.. .

Bobcat

Yadda:

Concerning Psalm 146:3 ("Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man"; KJV), the Expositor's Bible Commentary-Psalms (Tremper Longman & David E Garland, p. 993) says, "The psalmist uses the device of merismus - "princes" and "man" - to call on the community not to trust in human beings." ["princes" & "son of man" representing the highest ranking of humans and the common man, the 'high and low' of humanity, thus, including everyone in between. - Bobcat]

84

Witnesses: Why The 1/19/14 WT Lesson Is Dangerous

by Apognophos in

today's watchtower lesson touched on the history of hezekiah's reign, and then made a surprising modern-day application.

having used my time before the meeting to research the underlying material instead of highlighting my magazine, i personally found this to be an upsetting study, and decided to put this warning here in the hopes that some active witnesses read it.. the most important thing i want to say to you is that the actual flow of events in this bible account were severely misrepresented, and that there are some disturbing implications in the distortions that were made.

1. hezekiah's father ahaz makes himself a vassal to assyria out of fear of their overwhelming might (2 kings 16:7, 8).. 2. upon becoming king, hezekiah rebels against assyria (2 kings 18:7).

Bobcat

Johnamos:

That paragraph describes the WT to a T.

40

Don't Miss the Meetings - Hebrews 10:24, 25 Re-examined

by Oubliette in

i recently got an unsolicited lecture from a well-intentioned but nevertheless misguided jw friend.

the gist of it was that i needed to go to all the meetings or i would miss out on "everlasting life.".

i responded that i do not need to go to meetings to have a relationship with god.

Bobcat

I posted some reference material regarding Hebrews 10:24, 25 on this post. It is towards the latter part of my post.

84

Witnesses: Why The 1/19/14 WT Lesson Is Dangerous

by Apognophos in

today's watchtower lesson touched on the history of hezekiah's reign, and then made a surprising modern-day application.

having used my time before the meeting to research the underlying material instead of highlighting my magazine, i personally found this to be an upsetting study, and decided to put this warning here in the hopes that some active witnesses read it.. the most important thing i want to say to you is that the actual flow of events in this bible account were severely misrepresented, and that there are some disturbing implications in the distortions that were made.

1. hezekiah's father ahaz makes himself a vassal to assyria out of fear of their overwhelming might (2 kings 16:7, 8).. 2. upon becoming king, hezekiah rebels against assyria (2 kings 18:7).

Bobcat

For any who are interested, here (see the first five paragraphs) is Josephus' discussion of the Assyrian threat to Judah in the days of Hezekiah.

34

How do Jehovah's Witnesses get from 1914 to 1919?

by God_Delusion in

hi guys and gals,.

i have written an article that explains how the watchtower society gets from 607 bce to 1914 (http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/faqs/why-is-1914-important/) but i need some input so that i can write an article on how they get from 1914 to (via 1918) 1919.. are we talking about ezra, 1:2-4 when the persian king cyrus allows the israelites to go and rebuild the temple 3 and a half years after exiling them?

if so, how has the watchtower used this passage to get to 1919??.

Bobcat

I posted a brief, general explanation here.

27

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-19-2014 WT Study (8 DUKES)

by blondie in

and princes and mighty men.. *** w97 5/15 p. 19 par.

shepherds and eight dukes.

upon the words of hezekiah the king of.

Bobcat

Just to tie some of the comments on this article together:

Here is "Billy's" discussion of the article.

Here is Apognophos' discussion of several parts of it.

Here is research material on older WT views of the 7/8 dukes. (Thanks to Bats in the Belfry)

84

Witnesses: Why The 1/19/14 WT Lesson Is Dangerous

by Apognophos in

today's watchtower lesson touched on the history of hezekiah's reign, and then made a surprising modern-day application.

having used my time before the meeting to research the underlying material instead of highlighting my magazine, i personally found this to be an upsetting study, and decided to put this warning here in the hopes that some active witnesses read it.. the most important thing i want to say to you is that the actual flow of events in this bible account were severely misrepresented, and that there are some disturbing implications in the distortions that were made.

1. hezekiah's father ahaz makes himself a vassal to assyria out of fear of their overwhelming might (2 kings 16:7, 8).. 2. upon becoming king, hezekiah rebels against assyria (2 kings 18:7).

Bobcat

Apognophos:

Hopefully you agree that the statement in paragraph 10 of the article was still disingenuous, though, about how Hezekiah would never 'enlist the help of a pagan nation'.

See my comments here, especially the part regarding paragraph 10.

DATA:

The most hilarious/disgusting comment was the PRIMARY application of Micah 5 being about JW [secret weapon] Elders thousands of years later, and NOT the Messiah's reign.

I posted some comments from the McCominsky commentary on Micah that take a broader view of the application here. Of course, from the WT's viewpoint Messiah only began his reign as recently as 1914. So their 1914 doctrine skews their viewpoint greatly.

For lurkers, regarding when Jesus began his rule, compare here (various verses concerning when Jesus began his rule), and here (parousia), and here (re "The Kingdom of God/Heaven has drawn near"), and here (re Ps 2:7).

Take Care