Posts by Bobcat

14

A bombshell about Judge Rutherford 1938 Royal Albert Hall London “Face the Facts”

by Maryo in

http://youtu.be/f7tepvrx4vi.

judge rutherford is introduced by the speaker saying, “his preeminence in scriptural knowledge is beyond question.

he speaks as a messenger of jehovah.”.

Bobcat

Thanks Earnest for formatting the quote. The "toltalitarian combine" refers to the Axis powers. At that point in history (late 1930s) they did indeed appear to be on the way to victory. The battle of Britain, the invasion of Russia (along with the ensuing 'winter of the century'), and the attack on Pearl Harbor (which brought the US into the war) had not yet occurred. Everything appeared to be going the Axis' way.

The next booklet that discussed this ("End of Axis Powers"; 1941) foretold a draw between the Allies and the Axis. Then the "Peace, Can It Last?" talk in 1942 described an Allied victory.

The WT definitely kept up with current events. But the only part they ever discuss is the "Peace, Can It Last? talk. (See my post on this page for some additional detail.)

14

A bombshell about Judge Rutherford 1938 Royal Albert Hall London “Face the Facts”

by Maryo in

http://youtu.be/f7tepvrx4vi.

judge rutherford is introduced by the speaker saying, “his preeminence in scriptural knowledge is beyond question.

he speaks as a messenger of jehovah.”.

Bobcat

JFR thought that Germany was the scarlet beast of Rev 17. It had 'went into the abyss' in its defeat in WWI. And now (that is, the early part of WWII) it had come out. So, in his view, it was destined to be successful for "one hour" until it was done away with by God.

The harlot riding the beast was thought to be 'Popery." (i.e. Catholicism)

14

A bombshell about Judge Rutherford 1938 Royal Albert Hall London “Face the Facts”

by Maryo in

http://youtu.be/f7tepvrx4vi.

judge rutherford is introduced by the speaker saying, “his preeminence in scriptural knowledge is beyond question.

he speaks as a messenger of jehovah.”.

Bobcat

In the talk, which was afterwards published as a booklet, he urged the Allies not to resist the Axis powers since, according to JFR's understanding of the scriptures, the Axis powers were destined to win the war. (Face the Facts, page 27, par. 1)

26

Secondary fulfilment to prophecy?

by Doug Mason in

in its use of the prophecy contained in nebuchadnezzar's dream (daniel 4), the wts applies a "greater fulfilment" beyond its initial application.. while they complain about the wts's action, at the same time these people make their own secondary applications to prophecies, such as with micah 5:2. these people also find "greater" meaning to historical statements, such as at isaiah 9:6 and at isaiah 53.. such passages had their local meaning yet people are prepared to find their "greater application" which suits their ends, just as the wts does.

it is not an excuse to say that the nt writers indulged themselves in the practice.. i am not saying that i agree with the practice; i am simply seeking consistency and integrity.. doug.

Bobcat

Hi Mac48,

If you have time, compare your thoughts on Dan 4 with this thread (on another site). There are some similarities and differences in the proposed application.

14

New Covenant in this week's coverage

by waton in

unexplained features: the covenant was with all of "gods people" not just the priests or kings.

the new covenant wt style be made only with the 144 000 king priests and not all members of the "israel of god" ?.

if the new covenant is for the "forgiveness of sin" why is only .01 % of wt members covered by it?

Bobcat

You can see the "out of" point with the "great crowd." They are "out of" (Greek particle ek) "every nation and tribe and people and tongue." It is obvious that the writer means that the great crowd is a sub-group from among those larger groups. (Many commentaries also see that description of the great crowd as an allusion to the Abrahamic covenant.)

Similarly, the 144,000 are "out of" (same Greek particle ek) all the tribes of Israel. And each sub group of 12,000 are "out of" each tribe. This whole group of 144,000 are a sub group of a larger group described as,"all the tribes of the sons of Israel."

As was pointed out, the great crowd is seen working in the "sanctuary" (Greek naos) where it would be forbidden for people outside of the covenant to be.

They've made themselves "white in the blood of the Lamb." This relates them to being in the New Covenant.

Rev 7:16-17 is a quotation from Isa 49:9-10 which describes God's people being restored to their covenant heritage.

Everything about the passage speaks of the great crowd being in a covenant relationship with God. The fact that WT commentary on this passage disregards all that can only mean that their commentary is nothing but a self-serving lie.

Incidentally, see this post to see how the two groups in Rev 7 relate to seals 5 & 6 in Rev 6

14

New Covenant in this week's coverage

by waton in

unexplained features: the covenant was with all of "gods people" not just the priests or kings.

the new covenant wt style be made only with the 144 000 king priests and not all members of the "israel of god" ?.

if the new covenant is for the "forgiveness of sin" why is only .01 % of wt members covered by it?

Bobcat

3 This (i.e. 'praying to God for rulers so that Christians may go about life peacefully') is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, . . . (1Tim 2:3-6 ESV)

This passage agrees with your point. 'God desires all people (lit. "men") to be saved.' (1Tim 2:4) And there is a covenant for making that possible. The covenant is between "God" and "men" (same word for "people" above). And the "mediator" is Jesus. The only plausible covenant being spoken about would be the New Covenant.

Note the contrast between "men" (or "people") which is without the article, and "the man" (Christ Jesus). If "men" or "people" were referring to a very select group one would expect an articular "men."

The NWT wiggles around this problem by rendering "all people" as "all sorts of people." It is an anti-Christian rendering in that it denies a very large portion of Jesus' ransom. It could possibly be classed with 1Jo 2:22a.

15

Holy spirit indwelling

by Ding in

is it your understanding that any jw can have holy spirit indwell them or is that an experience a part of the anointing that the wt teaches is reserved for the 144,000?.

please provide references if you can..

Bobcat

Here is an off-site thread wherein I layed out research I had done on the Greek family of words related to "anoint" and words that had some NT relation to them for any interested.

It is interesting that the phrase 'anointed Christian' never occurs in the NT. In fact, such a phrase would not be unlike 'liquid water' or some other such tautology.

16

Two Bible Beliefs of Jehovah`s Witnesses ,Do They Align with each other ?

by smiddy3 in

1.the first is 2 cor.4:4 that satan is "the god of this system of things" to blind the minds of the unbelievers etc.. so logically this "system of things" would mean the governments ,politicians, armed forces and law enforcement agency`s such as the police would it not?

so satan is in control of all of these under the banner of being the god of this system of things.?.

2. rom.13: 1-7 " let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities for their is no authority except by god".

Bobcat

Hi Smiddy,

My thoughts . . . ? Well, first, the thread title. To be fair, what you are asking is more of a Bible proposition or problem rather than a JW one.

But, beyond that, the problem, as you stated it is, 'How can the governments of the world be both an arrangement of God and under the rulership of the devil?'

Have you considered the possibility that both are true? If the writer of Romans is the same as the writer of Corinthians (both writings claim to be written by Paul) then, this one writer believed that both propositions were true. As you pointed out, Rom 13 describes national governments to be "an arrangement of God. And he believed that, "the things the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God." (1Co 10:20) So, how could Paul think that both conditions were true?

When Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, one of the temptations involved showing Jesus all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth. The devil then tells Jesus, "To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. (Lu 4:5-6 ESV)

The devil is claiming that authority over the nations was "delivered" (or "handed over," or "relinquished") to him. The passive verb suggests that it was God who did this 'handing over.' (What is known as a "divine passive"; same verb used to describe Jesus being "handed over" for execution.) And Satan knew who Jesus was and where he came from. Logically, there must be some truth in the statement for it to be a temptation for Jesus. Satan is saying that he got the authority from a source that Jesus would view as legitimate, his own Father.

Rev 13:2 describes the devil (the "dragon") as giving the 'beast out of the sea' "power and a throne and great authority." This order, the 'beast' coming into existence first, and then the devil giving it "great authority," this ordering would place the tower of Babel incident as the point in time in which the newly forming human kingdom was "handed over" to Satan, A sort of 'divide and conquer' event. It is only after that that the great empires of the Bible begin to appear.

Of course, that does not explain why God would want such an arrangement. Anyways, you asked for thoughts. . .

31

The Church Father's "70 years"

by Doug Mason in

in their letter to lobsto regarding the neo-babylonian chronology, the wts wrote the following regarding the early church fathers:.

less than 200 years after josephus, several early church writers clearly accepted that the length of the desolation or exile was 70 years, and no one gives any other length for this event.

for instance, tatian the assyrian (110 to 172 c.e.

Bobcat

Doug, in case you haven't found it yet, here are the years for the 55th Olympiad. (560-557)

13

The Watchtower Society want basic human rights but ''somehow'' deny disfellowshipped members theirs

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

jehovah’s witnesses imprisoned for their faith—by location.

locations where jehovah’s witnesses are put in prison, sometimes under harsh conditions, for practicing their faith and exercising basic human rights.. .

others are imprisoned for their conscientious objection to military service.. watchtower society: please don't lecture anyone on the denial of basic human rights when you take away the rights of disfellowshipped family members associating with their family and friends!.

Bobcat

Marked. Good post and appreciate the links. The WT's shunning propaganda is a vile corruption of Christianity, and is really meant to protect their authority, just as the shunning that went on in among the 1st century Jews was also meant to protect the authority of its religious leaders.

Funny how human power tends to corrupt. (Eccl 4:1)