@Tammy, but how do you know that the Christ story hasn't been embellished? How do you know he wasn't just a charismatic guy who ended up with a few followers and who then ended up having all the miracles imagined (sort of like the story of an illeterate Muhammed having a vision from an angel and writing the Koran, or Joseph Smith being visited by the angel Gabriel and writing the Book of Mormons)?
brokethechain
JoinedPosts by brokethechain
-
10
Bible from God but not Adam not Literal?
by brokethechain ini hear some people believe that the bible is from god but because of science and archeology know that there was no global flood and that the first humans go much further back than 6,000 years.
how do you (they) reconcile the geneologies (in number/matthew/luke)?.
-
-
-
10
Bible from God but not Adam not Literal?
by brokethechain ini hear some people believe that the bible is from god but because of science and archeology know that there was no global flood and that the first humans go much further back than 6,000 years.
how do you (they) reconcile the geneologies (in number/matthew/luke)?.
-
-
brokethechain
So this means that those who claim to be christian/believe in Christ don't necessarily believe that there are no mistakes in the bible? But how do they know what portions can be trusted and which ones are from man?
-
10
Bible from God but not Adam not Literal?
by brokethechain ini hear some people believe that the bible is from god but because of science and archeology know that there was no global flood and that the first humans go much further back than 6,000 years.
how do you (they) reconcile the geneologies (in number/matthew/luke)?.
-
-
brokethechain
I hear some people believe that the Bible is from God but because of science and archeology know that there was no global flood and that the first humans go much further back than 6,000 years. How do you (they) reconcile the geneologies (in Number/Matthew/Luke)?
-
36
Is college worth it?
by NewYork44M inmy life has been transformed by higher education.
however, i am aware that college is not for everyone.. here are some interesting thoughts:.
http://www.theatlasphere.com/columns/080926-williams-higher-education.php.
-
-
brokethechain
Unless you are a genius like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates?
My current boss is in a very senior position - management of national operations - all without college.
Having said that, after personally having skipped college because of WT direction and working my way to a midclass level job, I'm back in college now. I still don't know if it will translate into a better job or better pay, but, regardless, I feel like it's COMPLETELY worth the time & money (for me anyway).
-
8
How "spriritual" (cultish) was your congregation?
by brokethechain inscaling the level of cult control within the jw organization on a scale of 1-10, i would say bethel life is probably a 10.. i ended up in a downtown big city congregation, and it had a high influx of uber zealous young people from other parts of the country.
and, as controlling as the wt publications are, some elders managed to find ways to add more rules.
a very controlling p.o.
-
-
brokethechain
Scaling the level of cult control within the JW organization on a scale of 1-10, I would say bethel life is probably a 10.
I ended up in a downtown big city congregation, and it had a high influx of uber zealous young people from other parts of the country. And, as controlling as the WT publications are, some elders managed to find ways to add more rules. A very controlling P.O. made sure we had regular local needs' talks with stuff like: "some of the brothers in this congregation are very unbalanced with their amount of recreation. Balanced recreation only requires OCCASIONAL recreation. In this cong., some are socializing SEVERAL TIMES / WEEK! That doesn't leave a person refreshed, then they are tired for FS" We were also repeatedly councelled against working in service with our friends, of arriving at the group pre-arranged.
There was also a huge amount of social pressure to "pioneer", stay "pioneering" or go to "bethel". I got the feeling that normal things like buying a house, going to college or having a normal job put someone on the fringes. But after visiting a few other congregation, I saw that some were so much more chilled. Everyone, including elders and their children, going to college, having careers, buying bigger homes, without any feeling that there was any pressure to do otherwise.
From my perspective, the contrast made those more liberal congregations seem like any other protestant religion.
But then the odd thing happened. After word got out that I had stopped attending meetings/FS, the friends I had that were in more chilled congregations were just as harsh on me for "leaving Jehovah". So I saw it's a cult, no matter what degree of cultishness.
-
16
Is "full-time service" a cult within a cult?
by brokethechain inaccording to the bite model, mind control groups keep their members busy, tell them they are special, have special lingo, etc.. doesn't that make "full-time ministers" into a deeper level of mind control?
it's a "special privilege" to be among those "ranks", there are extra meetings "anual pioneer meeting", "pioneer school", and a whole other level of guilt/indocrination/control for keeping pioneers/bethelites busy.
as "examples", they shouldn't socialize too much, they shouldn't miss field service groups, they should start their time early, they should study all the publications, etc.
-
-
brokethechain
I remember also how so much of one's identity is wrapped up in not only being a JW but in being a "pioneer".
One's self-esteem and sense of worth becomes tied to it, because it leaves so little time for any accomplishments, and any other accomplishments are discouraged anyway. In fact, I remember that among some of the pioneers, and the judmental attitudes were more severe. Outside accomplishments were frowned upon. Window washing or janitorial work was typically glorified, whereas an interesting secular job/ was seen as a "danger".
Looking back, I can see that different congregations also have differing levels of cultishness. Some are much more liberal. Being in congregations that had loads of pioneers, things were especially fanatical. It's pretty darn amazing that any break free (like me!)
-
26
Did you feel guilty for not pioneering?
by brokethechain ini started pioneering the month i finished high school, and never stopped until i awakened, 17 years later.
it seems like the entire time, there was so much emphasis on pioneering.
every field service meeting seemed to have a part that communicated the message that jehovah would zap us at the big a. or people would die because of us if we didn't have extenuating circumstances (i always translated as bad health or kids, but even then, there were always "examples" of the mom with 5 kids that was pioneering).
-
-
brokethechain
I started pioneering the month I finished high school, and never stopped until I awakened, 17 years later. It seems like the entire time, there was SO much emphasis on pioneering. Every field service meeting seemed to have a part that communicated the message that Jehovah would zap us at the big A. or people would die because of us if we didn't have extenuating circumstances (I always translated as bad health or kids, but even then, there were always "examples" of the mom with 5 kids that was pioneering). If you didn't pioneer, did you feel bad, guilty, or even as a believer, were you able to see that this was not a biblical requirement?
-
16
Is "full-time service" a cult within a cult?
by brokethechain inaccording to the bite model, mind control groups keep their members busy, tell them they are special, have special lingo, etc.. doesn't that make "full-time ministers" into a deeper level of mind control?
it's a "special privilege" to be among those "ranks", there are extra meetings "anual pioneer meeting", "pioneer school", and a whole other level of guilt/indocrination/control for keeping pioneers/bethelites busy.
as "examples", they shouldn't socialize too much, they shouldn't miss field service groups, they should start their time early, they should study all the publications, etc.
-
-
brokethechain
According to the BITE model, mind control groups keep their members busy, tell them they are special, have special lingo, etc.
Doesn't that make "full-time ministers" into a deeper level of mind control? It's a "special privilege" to be among those "ranks", there are extra meetings "anual pioneer meeting", "pioneer school", and a whole other level of guilt/indocrination/control for keeping pioneers/bethelites busy. As "examples", they shouldn't socialize too much, they shouldn't miss field service groups, they should start their time early, they should study all the publications, etc.
-
43
I grew up not fearing old age
by Sour Grapes inas a teenage jw, i grew up believing that i was not going to finish high school nor would i get old and have to die like my grandparents did.
well, i did finish high school, as did my children and my grandchildren and old age has not been kind to me.
i don't like to look at pictures from 40 years ago, from a time when i was healthy and i had the goal of "stay alive till 75.
-
-
brokethechain
Sometimes I wonder how the JWs deal with growing old. Do they really actually keep believing that the end is right around the corner, or do they just accept that the GB doesn't have a clue, but that the end will still come... eventually?
I remember spotting my first sign of aging and getting that sinking feeling that it had all been one big fairytale....
-
22
Coming to terms with mortality
by biometrics in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].
[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-au</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:enableopentypekerning /> <w:dontflipmirrorindents /> <w:overridetablestylehps /> </w:compatibility> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-fareast-language:en-us;} </style> <![endif].
-
-
brokethechain
Yup - But for me I've was hit with a full blown existential crisis - and trying to come to grips with the knowledge that I will die - the second I learnt the truth about the truth.