Posts by rabotnik

17

Masturbation

by CoolBreeze in

the title of this thread was one of the stumbling blocks of my study.

as a single full time father(with no time for dating)of a soon to be tenage son this was a major point of imprt to me.

the point came up during a discussion on porneia(sp?).

rabotnik

Hello everyone,

I recently saw a Woody Allen movie and there was a line that went:

"What's wrong with masturbation? It's sex with someone I love."

The best,
R.

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

rabotnik

To RedHorseWoman and larc,

Thank you so much for your comments. Yes, RedHorseWoman, I've been checking out the sites you mention.

The best,
rabotnik

Subi dura a rudibus

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

rabotnik

Wow! Guess I'm just lucky! *phew!*

Subi dura a rudibus

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

rabotnik

To Mommy (Wendy) and larc,

I appreciated your responses deeply. It is obvious, both of you have had journeys of transformation in your own special ways. Yes, despite life's ever present brutality -- beauty is abundant.

Thanks again (and I have to be leaving for the day ... so will check in latter this evening (West Coast Pacific Time).

Subi dura a rudibus

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

rabotnik

My, my, my logi-

Your self-appointed appellation is revealing itself to be a grand misnomer! If you want, I could help you pick a new one?

For someone who calls himself logical -- well, my dear brother, better go back to the dictionary. You should know that all questions contain not only content but intent. Your intent has become quite transparent. It makes your questions selfishly manipulating and rhetorical. Truly unworthy of a response.

Your logic in these last few posts is blatantly illogical and has holes big enough to fly a 747 through. According to your logic: since most pedophiles are heterosexual -- heterosexuality is not natural. I certainly disagree with that!

Also, logi-, it is very bad form for someone who purports to be "logical" to resort to an ad hominem attack on larc. Name calling? Now really!

Logi-, you express a great negative intensity when it comes to the subject of homosexuality. And you know what psychologists say that means: "Repressed, latent homosexuals squeel the loudest." Is there anything you want to share with your friends here on the board?

Come out, come out -- wherever you are.

Big loves and kisses to you buddy! (Of course, in the manner of Paul.)

Subi dura a rudibus

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

rabotnik

to logi,

Question

What is your purpose in asking this question?

Subi dura a rudibus

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

rabotnik

2nd letter to log-,

Well, we now know clearly your thinking on the matter!

A minor point, but from your usage you don't know what "asexual" means. And therefore, your reasoning is not logical ... or we could say it is ill-logical.

All the best to you,
The former congregational Queer.

Subi dura a rudibus

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

rabotnik

Hello Claudia, Thinker's Wife and larc,

Thanks for your responses. I was thinking that maybe this was the wrong forum to discuss this ....

I've been searching the net and have found some other sites that might be of help to me.

I have many questions concerning the future and my relationship with my family (that I love dearly) and the idea of religion and spirituality. It has all been very difficult and painful.

I feel like I've been living a lie, dishonest with myself and everyone. I now know what is "deep-down true" for myself and to attempt being someone else is to live a lie. Recently I came across this thought by Cervantes: "Donde está la verdad está Dios." (Where truth is, there is God.)I'm going with the truth.

Thanks again.

Subi dura a rudibus

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

rabotnik

Hello Logical:

First, let me say your post brought to mind a quote by Albert Einstein: "It's wise to make things simple. But dangerous to make things more simple than they are."

You ask, "what is natural about homosexuality?" One can look up the definition of "natural" in a quality dictionary. Let me see: Homosexuality is "present or produced by nature .... Not acquired, inherent .... Not produced or changed artificially; not conditioned ...." All of those definitions of "natural" are quite apt.

Then you ask, "If it is natural, why did Jehovah condemn it?" Of course, you bring at least two presumptions to this question. One, the idea of "Jehovah" (with all the convuluted baggage that contains); and, two, that he "condemns" it. What is your point here, Logical? You need to be more specific. Your idea of "Jehovah" and my idea are probably not the same. And, if we can arrive at some agreement about who Jehovah is, then, who says he condemns homosexuality? Do you believe everything you read is true? What about the idea of mythos and logos when it comes to examining ancient stories? Or, maybe it's as simple as Moses (or whoever wrote those passages) was insecure about his sexual prowess -- and felt it neccessary to adapt a "butch" posture about sexual orientation and projected it onto the people who followed him.

Then you write: "The Greek scriptures too talk about unnatural desires such as homosexuality." If you are using that sentence to challenge homosexuality, then once again, more presumptions, Logical. What if I am not a Christian but a Greek worshiper of Dionysius? And why do I have to interpret those passages the way you do? Is it not logical that these passages are subject to the context of the social environment in which they were written; the personalities of the writers and translators; and the mere act of translating from one language, one culture and era to another. All of this is rife with possibilities for distortion and subjectivity. Or I could deconstruct the passage and argue that homosexuality "celebrates" life.

What I have arrived at, Logical, after much emotional distress and psycic turmoil is that I need to listen to the "truth" of what my heart and experience tells me. By being honest with myself, by being an authentic human being -- then, "the truth shall make [me] free." Now that I believe -- even though I assume we understand differently the majority of the bible.

To be without an authentic self is to be prey to others who will readily supply me with one. The Jewish theologian Abraham Heschel said: "Sin is the refusal of the human to become who we are."

And I love this quote from African-American (and gay) writer James Baldwin: "You have to go the way your blood beats. If you don't live the only life you have, would won't live some other life, you won't live any life at all."

I say, homosexuality is definitely natural and ... logical!

(Non-sexual) Hugs,
rabotnik

Subi dura a rudibus

Edited by - rabotnik on 14 March 2001 21:13:43

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

rabotnik

Hello out there!

New here. Are there any former JWs who have come out as gay or lesbian? If so, were you disfellowshipped? And how did your family react? If they disowned you -- did you find any support outside?

Wondering ... and teetering on a jagged edge,

rabotnik

Subi dura a rudibus