Posts by Ranchette

21

YMCA=apostasy?

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

references have been made recently about joining the ymca is considered apostasty by the wts.

what action could be taken against someone (inactive jw that occasionally goes to meetings, they still give me a km each month even tho i haven't been in service for a couple of years and i do not attend the thursday nite meeting) like me?

the reason i am asking is because we joined the ymca a few months ago and have a draft taken out of our bank account for the membership dues.

Ranchette

I forgot to mention that the Society technically DA'd themselves when they joined the UN organization by their own teachings.

Do you think we'll ever hear the announcement?

Ranchette

21

YMCA=apostasy?

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

references have been made recently about joining the ymca is considered apostasty by the wts.

what action could be taken against someone (inactive jw that occasionally goes to meetings, they still give me a km each month even tho i haven't been in service for a couple of years and i do not attend the thursday nite meeting) like me?

the reason i am asking is because we joined the ymca a few months ago and have a draft taken out of our bank account for the membership dues.

Ranchette

They could pull this out as a weapon too.

from "Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry" page 151

"Concerning those who renounced their Christian faith in his day, the apostle John wrote: "They went out from among us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort they would have remained with us" (1 John 2:19) Also a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization the objective of which is contrary to the Bible and hence, is under judgement by Jehovah God. (Compare Revelation 19: 17-21; Isaiah 2:4) So if a person who is a Christian chooses to join those who are disapproved by God, it would be fitting for the congregation to acknowledge by a brief announcement that he has disassociated himself and is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Such a person would be viewed in the same way as a disfellowshipped person"

Ranchette

21

YMCA=apostasy?

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

references have been made recently about joining the ymca is considered apostasty by the wts.

what action could be taken against someone (inactive jw that occasionally goes to meetings, they still give me a km each month even tho i haven't been in service for a couple of years and i do not attend the thursday nite meeting) like me?

the reason i am asking is because we joined the ymca a few months ago and have a draft taken out of our bank account for the membership dues.

Ranchette

Here's an article on it.

*** w79 1/1 30-1 Questions from Readers ***
ó Is it true that for religious reasons Jehovah’s Witnesses may not become members of the YMCA (Young Men’s Christian Association)?
Yes, that is so. We have long recognized that the YMCA, though not being a church as such, is definitely aligned with the religious organizations of Christendom in efforts to promote interfaith.
In September 1885 the Watch Tower took this position:
“Alas for the Bible-rearing practiced in the Y. M. C. Associations! They are completely under the control of the sectarians, by whom they are supported. Though professedly non-sectarian, professedly controlled by no creed but the Bible, they are more creed-bound than others, since they are bound by all the popular creeds.”—P. 6.
Later the underlying religious purpose and interfaith efforts of the YMCA were mentioned in the September 1964 issue of Kingdom Ministry, used by Jehovah’s Witnesses in one of their meetings.
Many persons think of the “Y” simply as a social organization that offers various services, such as a swimming pool, facilities for athletic training and a place for clubs to meet. Commendable as some of these provisions may be, it is important to bear in mind that the YMCA was founded with a distinctly religious basis. This was set out at a World Alliance in Paris in 1855. The main part of that official statement (called the Paris Basis) reads:
“The Young Men’s Christian Associations seek to unite those young men, who, regarding Jesus Christ as their God and Saviour, according to the Holy Scriptures, desire to be His disciples in their faith and in their life, and to associate their efforts for the extension of His Kingdom amongst young men.” (Italics added)
While in some countries churches may not be the YMCA’s main source of revenue and while membership is open to persons of all races, nationalities and religions, the fundamental religious objectives of the “Y” cannot be ignored.
‘But,’ some may sincerely wonder, ‘is religion or interfaith really an aspect of the YMCA?’ The answer must be “Yes.” Though religious features may be de-emphasized in some branches of the YMCA, all local “Ys” are still expected to comply with the Paris Basis. Further, note comments from the 1975 YMCA publication Christian and Open:
Anza A. Lema, associate of the executive committee of the World Alliance of YMCAs, wrote:
“From its very foundation, it has always looked to the Bible for inspiration and guidance. In many ways its role in the world has tended to complement that of the church without claiming to be a congregation itself. . . .
“But it is more than just an instrument through which Christians put their moral ideals and teachings into practice as they serve society. Most supporters of the YMCA look at it as a place where real fellowship with one another through Jesus Christ is experienced. . . .
“In humbling itself and trying to relate its structures and services more directly to the community, it will be carrying out more effectively its role of service and priesthood for its neighbours. . . . ”
Matthias Dannenmann, general secretary, National Council of YMCAs of Germany, said:
“From its very beginning the YMCA was no doubt meant to have only Christians as members and on the other hand there was the missionary obligation towards those members who could not yet profess Jesus Christ. . . .
“The YMCA is a big offer, but only in as far as Jesus Christ is working in it as Living Saviour. We should do our very best not to drive out this Lord but as we carry him in our name we should personally use every chance of meeting him in the YMCA and of continuously extending this possibility to other people.”
Officials of the organization have pointed out that they feel that more attention needs to be given to the religious orientation of the YMCA. Dr. Paul M. Limbert, from 1952-1962 secretary-general of the YMCA’s World Alliance in Geneva, Switzerland, wrote:
“It may readily be granted that too few Y.M.C.A.s take full advantage of the opportunity for ecumenical education inherent in these informal contacts among Christians . . .
“When questions about different forms and beliefs arise among young people and adults, the wise leader takes advantage of the occasion to guide discussion from superficial argument to deeper dialogue. . . .
Leaders in both churches and Y.M.C.A.s need to recognize more clearly the essential nature of a lay ecumenical Christian movement. A Young Men’s Christian Association is not a church nor a substitute for a church. . . . Yet the Faith and Order commission of the British Council of Churches declared in a carefully worded statement in 1959 that the Christian Associations are ‘valuable auxiliaries’ of the churches, organs of their own missionary activity.”—The Christian Century, June 10, 1964.
And The Christian Century of August 29, 1969, in its article “Happy Birthday, Y.M.C.A.!”, stated:
“Realizing that the Christian identity of the ‘Y’ has often been drowned in swimming pools, its leaders are engaged in recovery of theological awareness and ecumenical vigor. . . . It may be that the greatest challenge to the Y.M.C.A. is to reclaim its religious heritage for the robust assertion of a new ecumenism among laymen in local communities. The Y.M.C.A. just might be able to do things for the Christian churches which, in their parochial rigidities, they seem unable to do for themselves.”
Consequently, there is ample evidence that the YMCA originated with religious objectives and continues to have such to this day.
In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25.) Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theater ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called “Christian” association would amount to apostasy.
Some individuals have on occasion not become members but have paid a onetime admission fee, viewing this as simply paying for a commercial service available. Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others.—1 Cor. 8:11-13.
Jehovah’s Witnesses, of course, appreciate a balanced amount of healthful exercise. The Bible says that “bodily training is beneficial for a little.” Yet it adds that “godly devotion is beneficial for all things.” (1 Tim. 4:8) That does not mean devotion to a triune God. The Bible does not teach that Jesus is “God” in a trinity, as is taught in many of Christendom’s churches and as is still included in the “Paris Basis” of the YMCA.—1 Cor. 11:3; John 17:3.
While interfaith efforts and ecumenism are popular today, they are not upheld by the true God, who told his servants: “Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. . . . ‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves.’” (2 Cor. 6:14-17) Also, Jesus plainly said that the Almighty must be worshiped “with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24) Most definitely that does not mean joining in a religious cause with persons holding beliefs contrary to what the Scriptures teach. (Rev. 18:4, 5) Thus, it is because of their understanding of what God expects of true worshipers, and of what the purposes and direction of the YMCA are, that Jehovah’s Witnesses may not become members of that organization.
Further, it is well to give thought to the fact that in virtually all the years of the YMCA’s existence, it has not acted in harmony with the spirit of Isaiah 2:2-4, as can be noted from the following historical facts:
“YMCA services to the armed forces began, in the United States, with the Civil War, and it continued giving service through all wars thereafter.”—Encyclopædia Britannica, Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 835, 1976 ed.
“In the Civil War, only ten years after its beginning in Boston, and before there were buildings or secretaries or financial resources, a total of 4,859 ‘delegates’ were recruited and deployed and over six millions of donated funds used for the temporal and spiritual needs of soldiers. . . . In World War I, the American Y.M.C.A. assumed an enormous responsibility for service at home and abroad for which a staff of 25,926 was required with expenditures of more than 167 million dollars. In World War II, the Y.M.C.A. became one of the organizations that founded the United Service Organizations [USO], joining as a group of private religious organizations from Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish faiths in an agreement with the Federal government to provide civilian recreational, welfare, and religious services to men in uniform and to war-production workers in communities adjacent to military establishments.”—The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, Vol. 36, pp. 13,467, 13,468, 1952 ed.
“YMCA activities for members of the armed forces began during the Civil War (1861-1865). These services increased with each later war and reached their fullest development during World War II (1939-1945). The YMCA maintained more than 450 clubs for the Allied armed forces.”—The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 21, p. 477, 1978 ed.
This kind of service under the name “Christian” was certainly not in fulfillment of Micah

Ranchette

18

We got kittens !!

by Simon in

jw
friends

since our old cat died a few weeks before we moved house, liam has not stopped asking about it and telling us how much he'd like a cat.. i've just been out an got two 7 week old kittens... mainly white with tortoishell markings... they are adorable (i had to use all my manly tough powers to resist bringing all 5 home).

the kids love them but i'm going to be very strict making sure they don't play with them... until i've finished

Ranchette

Congratulations on the new kitties!

Tip for the guys,
A man who likes cats gets extra points with some of us girls.

I knew it was true love when I married my husband because he hated cats and I married him anyway!

I've worked on him over the last 19 years, now he tolerates them.
Maybe hell progress to liking them in a few more years.

Ranchette

7

Needed: Emoticons for Important Things!

by JanH in

we've all seen the smileys, some of which quite useful for expressing emotions and getting across what would need lots of words.. however, we lack emoticons for what is discussed in -chat most of the time (and quite often on this board as well).

here's a few suggestions:.

a flat ass .

Ranchette

Thanks for entertaining me this morning Jan.

Ranchette

23

Question For American Travellers:

by Englishman in

jw
friends

how do you feel about travelling by air since the events of sept 11?.

have these occurences just made you uneasy, or were they enough to put a stop to flying altogether?.

i told some of my pub buddies that i would ask this question, the news media have indicated that most americans are refusing to travel anywhere by plane at present.. englishman.. nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

Ranchette

I didnt't want to fly for about two weeks after the terrorist attacks.
But I don't want to let anyone rob me of my freedom by overcoming me with anxiety.

I'd get on a plane today if I could.
I'm always ready to go!

Ranchette

56

If we were a congregation?

by joelbear in

jw
friends

if the group here was a congregation, what role would each person here play?.

joel

Ranchette

Mommy,

"No Thanks" is what we wanted to say but it made them (candy giver)so happy and we didn't want to hurt their feelings.
So thats why it ended up as glue in my daughters dress coat.She just had to sample it first!
Okay we have to come up with a substitute for this privlege.
Any ideas?

Waiting,
I liked your candy story.
I would have liked to see that.

Ranchette

11

REASON WHY wt joned the un

by one in

speculation here:.

1.- un finally became tired of the wt seven head beast crap etc.

2.- wt could be of help to the un.

Ranchette

One,

You said.
4.- If you continue against us here is what we will have to do about you...
5.- if you change your mind (now that you oracle is diying or dead), or at leat your actitude we can be forgiving, we may even help you, $$$.

What I'm trying to point out here is that even after WT became members they continued to be against the UN in their literature
they also didn't really Change their attitudeeither.

You don't think the UN would have noticed this in 9 or 10 yrs if they were so aware before making this suposed proposition with them what WT's attitude was towards the UN?

Yes they wrote some pro UN stuff in the Awake but at the same time the continued the negative they always had.The UN would have called them on the carpet on this if it happened the way you propose.

Why would it be so hard to believe that WT saw the benifits of becoming members and just believed the rank and file would never find out?
This isn't the only secret they have kept from us.
It's also not the first time they have gone against their own teachings.
I hope this makes sense.It makes sense in my head but putting it in word form is a challange.

Ranchette

56